[RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k Conduit Entries

Fri Aug 4 08:07:15 PDT 2023

Michael,

I think your work looks stellar, and I seriously doubt there would be any
airflow issues.

I plan to use strut to put the inverters out from the wall to deal with the
working depth issue, which should also help with airflow. That was part of
my thought process - even if the inverters don't have much bottom
clearance, there will be a gap off the wall. My issue is that the HomeGrid
batteries are pretty deep, much like the transformer problem that you are
suggesting. I have to get the inverters off the wall to meet the depth
requirements if I want the batteries directly below.

If I have to give them 6" to the gutter I will have to go back to the
drawing board.

Jason Szumlanski
Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956

On Fri, Aug 4, 2023 at 10:59 AM Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> We handle the 15Ks much like most vfds since both have cooling vents in
> the rear and knockouts or wiring compartments in the rear. What we do is
> set the units back so that the rear portion is hanging off of the rear of
> the gutter. The gutter in this case is held off of the wall for air flow.
> It does take some 3D strut work to accomplish. I'm putting a bank of VFDs
> in my woodshop today and will photograph this. Yes, it does place things  a
> few inches out of the frontal plane, but the intent of the code is really
> to prevent things like putting a transformer in front of a panelboard or
> some similar situation.
>
> On Fri, Aug 4, 2023 at 6:52 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Lou. I missed that 6" bottom spacing requirement in the manual.
>> That could explain a lot of the installation pictures I have seen.
>>
>> On the flip side, we have seen some examples of installations in this
>> thread without this 6-inch spacing, presumably without any adverse effects.
>> Obviously, NEC requires that we follow the manufacturer's instructions, but
>> for practical purposes or non-NEC installations, I wonder if this bottom
>> spacing is necessary. Perhaps the manufacturer could provide a letter of
>> exception. I might have to reach out to them. The manual seems to indicate
>> the heat dissipation is "from bottom to top," so I'm not sure how critical
>> the intake air spacing really is. I wouldn't want to put anything less than
>> 6 inches above, but perhaps below isn't as critical.
>>
>> My situation is that I want to put a 12x12 gutter above some HomeGrid
>> stacks and the inverters over the gutter. Based on my calculations, if I
>> use more than 2 inches of space between the gutter and inverter, I will
>> exceed the working height limit for the breakers in the inverters.
>>
>> Yes, I am aware of the depth difference between equipment and that will
>> be addressed to meet working space requirements. My technical problem is
>> only the NEC 240.24(A) height limit.
>>
>> Jason Szumlanski
>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 3, 2023 at 6:41 PM Lou Russo via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello All,
>>>
>>> Super impressive install, Michael. Almost worth a flight, and a site
>>> visit! Back to Jason's initial question....
>>>
>>> If you are using the 15kW Outdoor Sol-Ark they vent from the top and
>>> bottom with a required 6" minimum spacing on both the top and bottom.
>>>
>>> A 12kW Outdoor with 8x8 gutter and 1" offset nipples have worked great
>>> for us.
>>>
>>> Aloha,
>>>
>>> Lou Russo
>>> (808) 345 6762
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 3, 2023 at 7:09 AM Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches <
>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Drake,
>>>> Those are single phase combiner panels. I would have loved to set this
>>>> up as a three phase system, but there was already a mile of underground
>>>> single phase run throughout the property. We ended up running a half mile
>>>> 15KV line from the power site to the estate. This is an aside, it's kind of
>>>> hard to see, but for seperation, we attached  the pv circuits to the back
>>>> of the gutter using through bolted adhesive backed cable tie holders. Often
>>>> we use gutter dividers. They originate in the tall cabinet at the end which
>>>> houses controls, secondary PV disconnects, AC and DC egauges, Tigo hub,
>>>> Battery hub and (Lynk II). On the opposite end is a similar cabinet for the
>>>> collection and distribution of AC circuits. Also, above and below the
>>>> batteries are small gutters for communications and CT wires that run from
>>>> the transfer switches to eguage. One transfer switch to alternate usage
>>>> (alternating relay) or bypass between Gen 1 and Gen 2, and the other switch
>>>> to select inverter or generator power, locally or remotely. In the AC
>>>> cabinet there is a 400a contactor and time delay relay to achieve a
>>>> generator cooldown as the janky Sol-Arks don't do that and it's hell on new
>>>> diesels not to have that function.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Aug 3, 2023 at 7:50 AM Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches <
>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That looks really nice. How were you able to put 8 Sol Arc inverters
>>>>> on a 3 phase panel? Tech support told me that inverters had to be connected
>>>>> in groups of 3.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>
>>>>> Drake
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Drake Chamberlin*
>>>>>
>>>>> *Athens Electric LLC*
>>>>>
>>>>> *Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810*
>>>>>
>>>>> *CO Master Electrician’s License 4526*
>>>>>
>>>>> *NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional*
>>>>> ---
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2023-08-02 14:19, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> 10x10 gutter. Notice within, a 2.5x2.5 gutter for comms. 1 x 2.5"
>>>>> nipples work well. Chase nipples wont due to door clearance. I've also cut
>>>>> the bottoms out of the Sol-Arks and a corresponding square window in the
>>>>> gutter,  placed a 1/4" rubber gasket between the two. We do that when we
>>>>> have many VFD's over a gutter. Someone a while ago asked for a picture
>>>>> showing how we make long bussbars. This one is 24' long.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 10:08 AM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <
>>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Jason
>>>>> In plenty of applications l will use couplers with chase nipples,
>>>>> height is one issue but installed working height is very important. I use a
>>>>> 8"x8"x X gutter and sometimes even off set that from the wall, l have had
>>>>> AHJ not want to see mixed cables LVDC and AC in the same conduit so pass
>>>>> through the battery conductors right out the bottom and to the battery. I
>>>>> just create a template for punching into the gutter, looks clean and is
>>>>> safe with easy access to the display
>>>>> Fun times
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Aug 2, 2023, 8:04 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
>>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I see a lot of pictures with conduit nipples coming out of a gutter
>>>>> that are fairly long. I have a height limit issue and I'm wondering if
>>>>> there are any negative implications of using very short nipples between a
>>>>> wireway below and the inverter. I'm thinking about using close nipples or
>>>>> perhaps 2-in nipples if I have enough room.
>>>>>
>>>>> If there are any practical reasons that this will not work well,
>>>>> please let me know.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>>>> Florida Solar Design Group
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>
> --
>
> Michael Morningstar
>
>
> Morningstar Electric
>
> PO Box 1494
>
> Mount Shasta, CA 96067
>
> 530-921-0560
>
> mjmorningstar at gmail.com
>
>
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