[RE-wrenches] Inverter On/Off Switch use Outback FX

Fri Jul 21 15:06:35 PDT 2023

I was just about to suggest the same thing Mac suggested. Any 120 V relay would work. Just wire it in parallel with the auxiliary relay that is shutting the inverter off. When the AC input is energized, the relay closes, and your inverter turns on. I like using a relay that has a base. I trust the Eaton ice cube ones, but they’re kind of expensive. Here’s a cheaper one…

https://www.platt.com/p/0648927/abb/general-purpose-relay-11-blade-3pdt-120v-ac/abb1svr405612r2000

Base - https://www.platt.com/p/0736026/abb/socket-11-blade-cr-m/abb1svr405651r2000

These are the ones I stock on my work truck -  https://www.platt.com/p/0147434/eaton/relay-120vac-coil-dpdt-10a-8-pin-plug-in-style/786685930169/cutd3rf2a

Base - https://www.platt.com/p/0384871/eaton/socket-octal-8-pin-screw-clamp-terminals/782114159767/cutd3pa2

I like these ones for a few reasons. One, they seem to be quality. Two, you can get them in a wide variety of coil voltages, including DC voltages. Three, I like the little control tab where you can manually turn the relay on if you ever have a reason to do that.

Thanks,
Kienan

Green-Go Solar Distribution LLC

Maxfield Solar LLC (installation and consulting company)

maxfieldsolar at hotmail.com<https://maxfieldsolar@hotmail.com/>

(801) 631-5584(Cell)

www.distribution.solar

On Jul 21, 2023, at 6:29 AM, Jay via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

I’ve never used one before.

Can you recommend one?

On Jul 21, 2023, at 5:12 AM, Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

To avoid power relay, how about adding a voltage sensing coil on the AC input and have an NC contactor that opens on voltage in series with the inverter shutdown circuit.  This should interrupt the inverter shutdown any time the generator is on.

On Thu, Jul 20, 2023 at 6:00 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote:

I've done the AC relay idea as well, on Schneider that didn't have the easy off switching like the Outbacks.  The problems are:
1) Much bigger relay, much higher current on the control side as well.  It required a relay for the relay.
2) If there's a malfunction, you are messing with the main feeders for the home.
3) The inverters are still on with their no load draw, a pair of VFX inverters, would be 45 to 50 watts, so you could still shut the batteries down.

I think in your case without AGS, the trick might be to add a bypass control switch parallel to the relay, so they can manually turn the inverters back on.

Ray

On 7/20/2023 5:15 PM, Jay wrote:
Hi Ray

This house won’t have an AGS, manual start only.

And your comments exactly, having to wait until the next day when hopefully there is enough sun to charge the battery is iffy.

Or they could do the inverter bypass switch.

Again I’m back to why is it a worse idea to install a relay on the AC?

Thx

Jay

As to the sol ark which I never thought about it being in a sense an AC coupled system. IE if the inverter is off it won’t charge.
I guess you’ll have to install an external  battery charger?

On Jul 20, 2023, at 5:08 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org><mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

The aux off is only if the generator doesn't start.  You need to set the gen start voltage higher. Aux off is last ditch shut down, set for 44v for lead acid, or 47 to 49v, depending on the battery and inverter.   Hopefully DC coupled PV will raise the voltage enough to turn the inverters back on the next day.

This is my concern on Solark installs, I just noticed that the inverter won't pass through PV, if it hits its LVD set point.

On 7/20/2023 3:04 PM, jay via RE-wrenches wrote:
HI All,

I wanted to revisit this thread for one reason.

If you turn off the inverter at the remote on/off with the AUX relay, then starting the generator won’t have any impact as the inverter is off.
So someone will have to go and reset the AUX relay.

Vs

If you do a relay on the AC output, when you start the generator, it will start charging, raising the battery volts, causing the AUX relay to close AC output relay and you’ll have power in the house.

Am I missing something?

thanks

jay

Here is the last email I think:

Mac,

I think you've got an elegant solution to the problem. All you need is an inexpensive relay and to program the Aux output for loadshed. I believe shutting down the inverter with the remote on/off contacts is actually less stressful on the inverter than opening a relay or contactor on the load side.

Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar

On 7/11/2023 5:19 PM, Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches wrote:

Hello Wrenches,

I'm trying to solve an issue with an older Outback FX system.  It's a quad stack of Outback 3648 FX inverters and he has a couple of Fortress eVault and an unreliable generator. The LBCO setting can't go high enough to cut out before the eVaults cut out so he occasionally will have to direct charge the eVault to get things running again.I'd like to use a 12V Aux relay logic to trip the primary inverter on/off contacts before we go into battery shutdown so the solar has a chance to recover the system.  Pretty simple overall but I wanted to see if there are any known ill effects of doing this with substantial load on the system.  Of course, I can use a power relay but this may be better.

Thanks for your input!

--

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