[RE-wrenches] Generator choice for Sunny Island

Dana dana at solarwork.com
Tue Jul 11 08:47:10 PDT 2017 

This gen has a significant phantom load, & there is no way to avoid it. 
I have installed several & had to provide either a 10 watt PV module or a 120-12 volt battery maintainer.

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Dana Orzel                       Great Solar Works, Inc. 
208.721.7003                       dana at solarwork.com
Idaho Contractor - # 028765          Idaho PV # 028374
NABCEP # 051112-136                       www.solarwork.biz
"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  
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-----Original Message-----
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 8:36 AM
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator choice for Sunny Island

I remember most having to run a small soar panel to keep the start battery from draining. I too hope that is fixed. It looked to me that the offgrid warranty is 1/2 of grid-tie.  --Dave
> What is the standby current draw on this unit. In the past, that has 
> been an issue with Kohler.
>
> At 06:01 PM 7/10/2017, you wrote:
>>All - update for those of you interested, we are starting the portal 
>>installation tomorrow (with a Sunny Island for better or worse) and 
>>ended up going with a Kohler 14RESA propane generator.
>>This should be 2-wire start, ok at 100% duty cycle 120 v, and CARB 
>>compliant. If all goes as planned we'll be up and running next week 
>>and I'll keep you posted.
>>
>><http://www.kohlergenerators.com/home-generators/products/14RESA>http:
>>//www.kohlergenerators.com/home-generators/products/14RESA
>>
>>-August
>>
>>August Goers
>>
>>Luminalt Energy Corporation
>>
>>o: 415.641.4000
>>
>>m: 415.559.1525
>>
>><http://www.luminalt.com>www.luminalt.com
>>
>>Â
>>
>>On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 3:46 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar 
>><<mailto:offgridsolar at sti.net>offgridsolar at sti.net> wrote:
>>I did a few projects for Yosemite. Then I used the EU6500i which is 
>>now the EU7000i. Never had anyone ask. and that you will find is the issue.
>> In
>>my county of Mariposa they will issue a certificate of occupancy on a 
>>house running a generator for final approval. Pretty lax about it all. 
>>If I go across the county line into Tuolumne everything is hard to do. 
>>Geeze an offgrid generator...Use Honda or design so that you don't 
>>need one :)
>>
>>Dave Angelini / Offgrid Solar
>>
>>
>> > Hi Gary and All â€â€œ
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > We looked into the EcoGen unit, but the 6kW is discontinued and the
>> 15kW
>> > EcoGen is not rated to be sold in California. Bummer.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Speaking of California, do any of you know about the CARB 
>> > compliance issues on selecting a generator for an offgrid renewable 
>> > project? We had one generator rep tell us that only a Tier 4F CARB 
>> > generators are legal
>> for
>> > use
>> > with offgrid in California, but I can’t ¢t
>> find anything online to clarify.
>> > Since this project is in the National Parks, we need to make sure 
>> > we don̢۪t
>> > > have any compliance issues. If anyone knows anything about what 
>> > > kind
>> of
>> > CARB compliance is or isn̢۪t required, I, I̢۪d love to hear 
>> > about
>> it.
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > Cheers!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > August
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > *From:* RE-wrenches 
>> > [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org]
>> *On
>> > Behalf Of *Gary Willett
>> > *Sent:* Friday, June 16, 2017 7:58 AM
>> > *To:*
>> <mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>re-wrenches at lists.re-wrench
>> es.org
>> > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator choice for Sunny Island
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > AUGUST:
>> >
>> > The Generac EcoGen is dual-fuel capable (NG or LP), comes in 6kW 
>> > and
>> 15kW
>> > versions, is 2-wire start, can be field-configured for either 120V 
>> > or 240V.
>> > It's not "portable" as it does not have wheels. It's transportable
>> though
>> > based on its footprint and weight. Also, it was specifically 
>> > designed
>> and
>> > warranteed  for off-grid applications.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Gary Willett PE
>> > Icarus Engineering LLC
>> >
>> > On 6/16/17 9:36 AM, Kevin Pegg wrote:
>> >
>> > You could use a 2 -> 3 wire converter such as the Atkinson GSCM 
>> > module that will take the 2 wire output from the SI and convert to 
>> > 3-wire to
>> control a
>> > gasoline generator such as the Honda EU7000 series, or Cummins/Onan
>> makes
>> > a
>> > good line of gasoline generators. It may be very hard to find a gas 
>> > generator that has 2 wire native remote start. That is more common
>> with
>> > larger propane or diesel generators.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Kevin
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > *From:* RE-wrenches
>> [mailto:<mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>re-wrenches
>> -bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
>> >
>> <<mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>re-wrenches-bounce
>> s at lists.re-wrenches.org>]
>> *On Behalf Of *August Goers
>> > *Sent:* June-16-17 7:22 AM
>> > *To:* RE-wrenches
>> <<mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenc
>> hes.org>
>> >
>> <<mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenc
>> hes.org>
>> > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator choice for Sunny Island
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks for the good feedback folks!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > We are using a Sunny Island setup because we had access to a free
>> Sunny
>> > Island and Sunny Boy being scrapped from another site. Otherwise I 
>> > was definitely planning on going with a Outback DC coupled system.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I think the trick here is trying to find a portable generator that 
>> > has
>> a
>> > two-wire start option. I̢۪m looking
>> throurough the usual genny suppliers and
>> > nothing has presented itself so far. Anyway,
>> I’™ll keep looking and will
>> > check out Chris̢۪ suggestion on the nexus
>> controtroller and Generac propane
>> > unit as well.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > FYI, here is a link to what the portal is
>> like. Itâ€ââ„¢s going in National
>> > Park
>> > land by the Golden Gate Bridge so I hope we can pull it together!
>> > <http://www.sharedstudios.com/>http://www.sharedstudios.com/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > August
>> >
>> > Luminalt
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > *From:* RE-wrenches 
>> > [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org]
>> *On
>> > Behalf Of *Chris Mason
>> > *Sent:* Friday, June 16, 2017 4:56 AM
>> > *To:* RE-wrenches
>> <<mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenc
>> hes.org>
>> > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator choice for Sunny Island
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > To my limited mind, the whole 120V sunny island setup is a disaster.
>> Why
>> > not install a DC coupled 8KW Outback Radian and solve all your
>> problems.
>> > USe any 240V generator, although finding a 2 wire start gasoline 
>> > unit
>> may
>> > be hard. I would use a Nexus controller generac propane generator 
>> > with propane tank, all mounted on the container. I would never 
>> > design
>> anything
>> > to use gasoline, it's too dangerous.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 7:19 AM, Matthew
>> Sirum <<mailto:matthewsirum at gmail.com>matthewsirum at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > Greetings August,
>> >
>> > Great thoughts and comments from Brian!  I would also suggest
>> speaking
>> > with the generator manufacturers' tech/engineering folks regarding 
>> > the 120VAC configuration and to confirm 2-wire start set up once 
>> > you have a brand and model or two in mind.  Generator parts and 
>> > service availability in the region of the project may also drive 
>> > brand selection.  If you need to maximize the inverter's battery 
>> > charging capabilities (depending on battery system charging 
>> > requirements) you may end up needing to look at generators in the 
>> > 7.5 kW to 8.0 kW capacity range to allow for headroom in generator output loading.
>> >
>> > Also; I am curious how you arrived at an AC coupled design for this 
>> > project.  I do not know any of the details or specific projects 
>> > goals you are working with, but I would potentially consider a DC 
>> > coupled system design...  DC/DC charge controller(s) would keep 
>> > the battery system charged (and any DC loads operable) even if the 
>> > Sunny Island and/or Sunny Boy(s) have a failure or is taken 
>> > offline.  If most of the AC loads are 120VAC I would consider 
>> > keeping the inverter AC output circuit 120VAC and install a 
>> > dedicated transformer solely for the 240VAC load....  Or perhaps consider a 120/240VAC inverter model.
>> > Depending on the overall situation a DC coupled system could be 
>> > more resilient.  The dedicated transformer for the 240VAC load 
>> > could also potentially help make the system more robust.  Also; I 
>> > have spoken with a number of folks who have told me they wish the 
>> > Sunny Island had more/better features for generator integration.  
>> > I'd like to hear
>> more
>> > from those who have plenty of experience designing and installing 
>> > systems with Sunny Islands and generators to learn what the current 
>> > thoughts and issues are.
>> >
>> > I hope some of these thoughts may be helpful.
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> >
>> > ----MATT
>> >
>> > Matthew Sirum
>> > P.O. Box 1227
>> > Greenfield, MA 01302-1227Â  USA
>> > phone: +1.413.773.0611
>> > email: <mailto:MatthewSirum at gmail.com>MatthewSirum at gmail.com
>> >
>> >
>> > --------Â  Original Message Below --------
>> >
>> > [RE-wrenches] Generator choice for Sunny Island August Goers august 
>> > at <http://luminalt.com>luminalt.com Thu Jun 15 09:02:41 PDT 2017
>> >
>> > Hi Wrenches, especially those of you who work on off-grid projects,
>> >
>> > We have an upcoming off-grid project where we will be powering a
>> storage
>> > container with electronics in it. The loads are mostly 120 volt but
>> there
>> > is a 240 volt heat pump that might occasionally run. We̢۪re AC
>> coupling
>> > > the
>> > Sunny Island with a Sunny Boy PV inverter. So, weâ€â„„¢ll be
>> installing a
>> > Outback PSX-240 autoformer to bump the Sunny
>> Islandâ€ââ„¢s output from 120 to
>> > 240 volt.
>> >
>> > We need to select a generator for backup. We need a two-wire 
>> > electric start (in order to be controlled by the Sunny Island) and 
>> > preferably a
>> generator
>> > that is okay just running 120 volt loads since the Sunny Islands 
>> > input
>> is
>> > only 120 volt. Something in the 3 kVA -7 kVA range should be fine.
>> >
>> > Does anyone have experience or ideas about what kind of two-wire 
>> > start generator we might select?
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > August
>> >
>> > Luminalt
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > Chris Mason
>> >
>> > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installerâ„¢
>> >
>> > Solar Design Engineer
>> >
>> > Generac Generators Industrial technician
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > <http://www.cometsolar.com>www.cometsolar.com
>> <http://www.cometenergysystems.com>
>> >
>> > <tel:264.235.5670>264.235.5670
>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>>Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
>>"we go where powerlines don't"
>><http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>http://members.sti.net/offgridso
>>lar/ e-mail  <mailto:offgridsolar at sti.net>offgridsolar at sti.net
>>text <tel:209%20813%200060>209 813 0060
>>
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Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridsolar at sti.net
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