[RE-wrenches] Aquion Batteries

Wed Mar 8 13:33:59 PST 2017

Hi Tump,

If you recall, this is EXACTLY what I was calling into question on this list back on November 11th, 2014 and again on Jan 29th, 2016. It looks like you have confirmed my suspicion. The battery can not possible provide the rated capacity. I hope others that have tested these batteries will also confirm this as it could be a very expensive mistake.

Here’s my Jan 29th post:

"Something does not add up to me. The cell has a voltage discharge curve way outside that of RE equipment, 1.75 Vpc down to 0.5Vpc. I can't see how this technology could be scaled to RE applications without wasting much of the capacity. From what I see, only about 40% could be used before LVD.

And this:
The Aquion battery claims their 2.4kWh, 48 volt stack operates from 59 to 30 volts. Many inverters have a LBCO of 1.75 Vpc (42 volts). Depending on voltage sag, that means about half of the capacity of the Aquion battery can't be used. Even if the outback can operate down to 1.5 Vpc, you are still not able to use the full capacity of the battery unless your load is less than 800 Watts. 

I have reviewed their technical presentation and it looks to me like the capacity simply can't be used in the off grid environment. If you can't use it, why do they rate it at 2.4kWh? BTW, the Voltage vs.Energy chart on the spec sheet does not match the first chart I posted."

Thank you,

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems
(928) 342-9103

On Mar 8, 2017, at 2:13 PM, Tump <tump at swnl.net> wrote:

I have dual Sunny Islands & dual SB 4000TL22US  w/ 20 stack on one and another site w/ the Aspen 48M w/ Schneider. I will say this; cost per amp hour of storage  sucks w/ the Aquion batteries. Both my client and I feel, that the batteries, despite there size have very little capacity. The “30”%DOD, that I have the SIs set to start the Gen set, charges the stacks OK but one gets better performance from  charging w/slower solar source. The Aspen48M is ~ 42X28X42” @563 AH of capacity, UnigyII 2000 Ah ~ 42x40x6’ tall. Batteries are defiantly temperature sensitive, operating should be ~ 60*. The set up w/ the SMA product, adds additional cost due to the required  BM200 AND  the Sunny Island Interface Device, and the SM100 unless you are buying theAspen48M which comes pre wired. (Aspen 48M which comes thru w/ the sensing module installed).  It is quite helpful, if this is an off grid install due to the fact that the BM200 needs and when things go south Aquion can toggle the unit off site and help w/ configuration & upgrades, to be connected to the internet. This install also needs the correct firmware to be installed on the SI which when  was delivered, the firmware  would only load into the master then shut down the system. Had to reconfigure as 2 separate units, load the firm ware and then reconfigure for 2 phase. 
I have spoken to the manufacture re/ lack of capacity and was told that must be my loads…. NOT. 
I would suggest that despite their hype these are quite expensive and require quite a bit more of labor IF you are wiring the un sensed stacks. And there is definitely a learning curve if you are using the SI.
My own system and what I prefer to push IS the SMA SI w/ the SMA SBs (make sure that you get the TL22s as the newest SB is not compatible for “ AC coupling” in this configuration) w/ the Unigy II/MK line. (same battery) These have buss bars, stack vertically , the interlocking stacks is perfect for earthquake locations. AND are totally recyclable.
Pictures  of the SMA install & insights of battery installation available, contact me off line.  TUMP 

> On Mar 8, 2017, at 12:55 PM, Martin Herzfeld <findsolar at herzfeld.org <mailto:findsolar at herzfeld.org>> wrote:
> 
> Has anyone worked with them with a Sunny Island?  Space is not an issue for this client.
> 
> Martin Herzfeld, IREC Certified Master Trainer ™ for PV Installation Professional #IREC 10037
> California Solar Contractor License  #00833782  C46, D56, D31, C-7
> Solar, Trenching, Pole Installation & Maintenance, Instrumentation
> 
> UL Certified PV Installer #17, OSHA 30
> OSHA-Authorized Construction Trainer #C0068034
> CompTIA Certified Technical Classroom Trainer (CTT+) #T3NSZCNBBKB4QTQG
> 
> Registered NABCEP Continuing Education (CE) Provider
>     
> 
> On Jul 20, 2016 2:00 PM, "Jerry Shafer" <jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com <mailto:jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> We had a customer request them but once we found out how many it would take, he decided on the deka unigee instead. l dont like running my OB's at such a low voltage as they seem to get hotter due to the higher current. Some of our other product lines don't even reccomend aquions due to that low voltage, suggest asking your inverter manufacture too.
> 
> 
> On Jul 20, 2016 10:52 AM, "Drake" <drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org <mailto:drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org>> wrote:
> Hello Wrenches,
> 
> I have a client who is going to take the plunge and buy a set of Aquion Batteries. They look pretty good on paper, but I'm not sure how well an inverter would function at the 40 V minimum. Does anyone have experience to recommend them or warn against using them?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Drake
> 
> Drake Chamberlin
> Athens Electric LLC
> OH License 44810
> CO License 3773
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV 
> 740-448-7328 <tel:740-448-7328>
> http://athens-electric.com/ <http://athens-electric.com/> 
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> Tump at swnl.net <blocked::mailto:Tump at swnl.net%22%20%5Co%20%22blocked::mailto:Tump at swnl.net>               www.SWNL.net <blocked::http://www.swnl.net/%22%20%5Co%20%22blocked::http://www.swnl.net/>
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>                               Blair "TUMP" May
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