[RE-wrenches] Retaining Clips

Drake drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org
Wed Nov 30 18:00:18 PST 2016 

Hi Adam,

It ok for the main lugs to be hot. There will 
always be a hot wire in the box somewhere. The 
main lugs are a very safe place to land it. Even 
with main breakers, the lugs feeding the breakers are always hot.

This is a lot safer than having an "always hot" 
wire going to a breaker that could conceivably 
come loose even with a retainer.

Best,

Drake


At 02:11 PM 11/30/2016, you wrote:
>I'm also just now realizing that if I were to 
>rate my wire from the tap/main panel to my 70A 
>disconnect I would want #6awg wire and the QO breakers only go to #8.Â
>
>Drake if I went from the tap right into the 
>lugs, it would leave those lugs hot and exposed. 
>Is that my only option though?Â
>
>Adam Katzman
>Autonomous Energies
>PO Box 1245
>Kingston, NY 12402
><http://www.autonomousenergies.com>www.autonomousenergies.com
>(518) 567-1468
>
>
>On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 1:57 PM, Drake 
><<mailto:drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org>drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org> 
>wrote:
>Can you come out of the line side tap to the 
>lugs, and connect the solar to the breaker 
>terminals? This way a retainer clip is not required.
>
>At 11:12 AM 11/30/2016, you wrote:
>
>>Sorry I should have elaborated more from the beginning.
>>
>>Â
>>
>>I am using the panel as a service disconnect 
>>for a lineside connection (can̢۪t use a 
>>fused/bladed disco because of space 
>>conconstraints). Originally I bought a QO 70A 
>>panel, but soon realized that the Square D 
>>retention clip (PK2MB) is only compatible with 
>>their larger panels. So I bought a larger panel 
>>(100A 8 Circuit) and then received some 
>>feedback that having the open spaces (even if 
>>labeled that “Do N Not Add Loads†) could 
>>raise a flag with an inspector. So then I was 
>>back on the hunt for a dedicated 2 Pole 60A or 
>>70A panel with a compatible retention clip for 
>>a 30A breaker. Eaton̢۪s retention options 
>>only start rt in the 60A range (the smaller 
>>breakers don̢۪t have the hole in them to to 
>>put the bolt through). Square D said they 
>>don̢۪t have an option fo for their 70A panel. 
>>There aren̢۪t any good Siemans distributors 
>>near me be but I wasn̢۪t t finding an option via google for them either.
>>
>>Â
>>
>>I talked with another Wrencher on the phone and 
>>received this feedback which I̢۪m just going 
>>to cut and paste to include it it in this thread:
>>
>>
>>“The NEC doesn’t require a hold hold down 
>>clamp for the circuit breaker unless it can be 
>>backfed from a multi-mode or stand-alone inverter (690.10(E)).
>>
>>The language implies that a hold-down is 
>>therefore not required elsewhere. Most modern 
>>breakers (def. QO̢۪s) are not ot marked 
>>“line†¬ and “load†so no problem 
>>there (also in in same code section).
>>
>>Â
>>
>>Even when it was a requirement for all PV 
>>outputs, John Wiles had argued that taking off 
>>the panel cover, which required a tool, served 
>>as the hold-down, and this was generally accepted.â€
>>
>>Â
>>
>>So taken that advice I’m back to using the 
>>QO 70A panel but without a retention clip (or 
>>calling the lid the "retention clip").
>>
>>Â
>>
>>For what its worth I have passed inspections 
>>prior using the retaining clip from a generator 
>>interlock kit (QOCGK2C) on a QO 100A panel, but 
>>felt like there must be a better option out there....
>>
>>Adam Katzman
>>Autonomous Energies
>>PO Box 1245
>>Kingston, NY 12402
>><http://www.autonomousenergies.com>www.autonomousenergies.com
>><tel:(518)%20567-1468>(518) 567-1468
>>
>>
>>On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 10:45 AM, Drake 
>><<mailto:drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org> 
>>drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org> wrote:
>>Siemens has main breaker retainers. The 
>>retainers for QO seem work on some boxes and 
>>not others. It doesn't work on 6 space boxes 
>>I've purchased, but does work on the 8.
>>
>>At 10:14 PM 11/29/2016, you wrote:
>>
>>>Wrenchers,
>>>I’m trying to find a 60A 2 Pole 
>>>Breakeaker Box that hashas a compatible 
>>>retaining clip. The QO retaining clip 
>>>(PK2MBCP) seems to only be compatible with 
>>>their 4-8 circuit load centers. What are my options? Thanks!
>>>Thanks
>>>Adam
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