[RE-wrenches] PV Recombiner

[Jerry Shafer]

I spoke to midnite and they said they got a gfi 100 amp, l dont recall if
it was din tail or bolt on
Jerry

On Oct 12, 2016 12:53 PM, "Roy Butler" <roy at four-winds-energy.com> wrote:

> Drake,
>
> That's funny, William and I were having that discussion earlier today
> about those old DC enclosures.
> There was no need to sign your work because you left plenty of DNA behind
> for identification......
>
> Roy Butler
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer®
> NYSERDA eligible PV & wind installer
> Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC
> 8902 Route 46, Arkport, NY 14807607-324-9747  www.four-winds-energy.com
>
> Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message,
> a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
>
>
>
> On 10/12/2016 6:44 PM, Drake wrote:
>
> Right, the old Trace DC cabinets were bloody knuckle boxes for sure.
> Things have come a long way since those days, and still have a ways to go.
>
>
> At 02:36 PM 10/12/2016, you wrote:
>
> Drake:
> Â
> Your point brings to mind the evolution of the BOS cabinet:
> Â
> 1.    In the good old days of the SW inverter, the DC cabinet was all
> you got, and it was grossly inadequate.  Off-the-shelf load centers were
> the only choice for the AC side.  AC bypassing was a relatively new
> concept but it could be done.
> 2.    Prior to having an approved inverter, Outback manufactured a
> brilliant system of BOS that fit the SW, the DR and the future FX series of
> inverters (the PS series).  I believe BoB Gudgel is responsible for this
> design and it was genius.Â
> 3.    Even with improved BOS, there are the shortcomings we have been
> discussing.  There is always room for improvement and I am hoping our
> discussion drives more of that.
> Â
> I too believe that plug-on AC breakers are the superior alternative.Â
> They are cheap and readily available.  Generally two load centers are
> required, one for generator fed and one for inverter fed.  GTBB systems
> might call for a third panel: utility fed.  Bypass is the only issue that
> calls for considerations out of the ordinary for standard load center
> installations.  Most panel manufacturers provide limited interlock
> methods.  Where we need to interlock more than two breakers we fab our own
> slides.  Sure, they are not “listed†but they are a simple mechanical
> device and I am comfortable using them.
> Â
> There are some challenges to overcome when integrating specialized
> inverter equipment with standard electrical components.  For example,
> connecting standard load centers to an FX inverter is problematic because
> the FX KOs are so far from the mounting surface.  This is the part of the
> work that I enjoy immensely.  We really want to make installations that
> are reliable, efficient to install and look good.  I have a friend in the
> entertainment industry that once said, “aesthetically pleasing
> installation are more reliable…†  True words.
>
> Â
> Thanks for you input.
> Â
> William
> Â
> Â
> [image: Gradient Cap_mini]
> Lic 773985
> millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>
> 805-438-5600
> Â
> *From:* RE-wrenches [ mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
> <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>] *On Behalf Of *Drake
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 12, 2016 6:36 AM
> *To:* RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] PV Recombiner
> Â
> DC breaker systems should be designed similar to AC bolt on breaker
> systems that are used for many commercial and industrial applications.
>
> The explanation for the fact that these don't exist has to do with the
> cost of designing and listing the equipment. There is no technical reason
> that a DC enclosure needs to be any more difficult to wire than an off the
> shelf AC box.
>
> The AC breakers in any solar enclosure should certainly be standard snap
> on breakers. Once the power has been inverted to AC, there is no reasonÂ
> to require anything other than standard code requirements.
>
> Drake Chamberlin
>
>
>
>
>
> *Athens Electric LLC OH License 44810 CO License 3773 NABCEP Certified
> Solar PV 740-448-7328 <740-448-7328> *http://athens-electric.com/
>
> At 11:31 PM 10/10/2016, you wrote:
>
> My students we just today complaining about the access to wires on the
> panel mount breakers. The lug idea with separators might be a fix. It
> definitely needs to be done differently. In class We added another inverter
> to our package and trying to install another 175A breaker was a pain. We
> have a few other DC breakers in there already. The whole cabinet is
> basically inaccessible.
>
> Jesse Dahl
>
> NABCEP PV Installation Professional
> IBEW Local 292 - Electrician
> Electrical/Solar PV Instructor - HCC
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 10, 2016, at 9:40 PM, Jerry Shafer <jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com >
> wrote:
>
>
> You might want to look at the square D QO breaker line some are dc rated
> and voltage rated and are panel mounted.
> Jerry
>
> On Oct 10, 2016 3:00 PM, "jay" <jay.peltz at gmail.com> wrote:
> I†ll chime in here.<
> Yes the GSLC is a piece of junk.Â
> However it is UL listed for the job. And while you could put together
> something that would work with Airpax breakers together, but it wouldn̢۪t
> be UL.
>
> What I do is to swap out all the wires to Arctic ultra flex.  This allows
> much better movement of the wires with significantly less stress on the
> terminals.   And if you want to not attach wires to the back of the
> breakers then you can and I̢۪ve seen outback do it,it, install lay in
> lugs facing outwards so you can use a screwdriver or allen key on them.Â
> Allows for installation and removal of wire without removal of the breaker
> or the plate/breakers.  With thimbles of course. And I can’t find them
> but I know they make them, shielields that fit between each breaker so the
> lay in lugs are insulated.
> jay
> peltz power
>
>
>
> On Oct 10, 2016, at 4:40 PM, William Miller <william at millersolar.com >
> wrote:
> Chris:
> Â
> Thank you for the reply.  I think you misunderstand me.  We always use
> the GSLC cabinets.  I just don’t like the design conceptept that
> clutters the cabinet with AC and DC breakers that are difficult to access
> and block other components.  See photo below of a prewired GSLC Cabinet we
> were asked to work in.  Not a good scenario.
> Â
> We have created an installation standard using the GSLC that minimizes the
> problems inherent with the design.  We run all AC leads to adjacent load
> centers and we try to minimize the DC breakers in the cabinet.  It is our
> goal to completely eliminate all breakers from the removable dead-front.Â
> I think it is pretty self-explanatory why one would not prefer to make
> connections in a hard to reach location.
> Â
> Our goal is to constantly improve our installation procedures to create
> better, safer and more efficient installations.Â
> Â
> Also, I don̢۪t need someone to instructuct me on how to make a
> “finished†looking ing install. If you are familiar with my work you
> know it is as clean as it gets.  Review my web site.  Below is but one
> example of one of our installs.
> Â
> And lastly, “suck it up†is nos not a very complimentary phrase.Â
> Please, let̢۪s ks keep it professional.
> Â
> Sincerely,
> Â
> William Miller
> Â
> <image007.jpg>
> Figure 1 Factory wired GSLC
> Â
> <image008.jpg>
> Figure 2 Miller Solar installed GSLC..
> Â
> <image009.jpg>
> Lic 773985
> millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>
> 805-438-5600
> Â
> From: RE-wrenches [ <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
> <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>] On Behalf Of Chris Mason
> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2016 3:40 PM
> To: RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] PV Recombiner
> Â
> The GSLC gives the system a nice finished appearance that the customer
> will understand. Suck it up and live with the imperfect world we function
> in.
> Â
> On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 5:55 PM, William Miller <william at millersolar.com
> > wrote:
>
> Friends:
> Â
> I am looking for a PV recombiner.  I need to accept the outputs from 3
> remote PV Combiners, send those outputs through GFP circuit breakers, into
> charge controllers, back thorough breaker, into a bus bar, through a main
> breaker and onto a large battery bank.
> Â
> I am using 2 Outback Radian inverters, but I refuse to install DC breakers
> on their dead-front because wiring to studs facing away from the front is
> an inferior design.  Furthermore, I see no need to run PV circuits through
> the GSLC cabinets.
> Â
> I looked at the Midnite MNDC15 but again, these use panel mounted breakers
> with studs on the back.
> Â
> Anyone know of a more thoughtfully designed PV recombiner?
> Â
> Thanks in advance,
> Â
> William Miller
> Â
> Â
> <image003.jpg>
> Lic 773985
> millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>
> 805-438-5600
> Â
>
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> Â
> Â
> --
> Chris Mason
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
> Solar Design Engineer
> Generac Generators Industrial technician
> Â
> www.cometsolar.com <http://www.cometenergysystems.com/>
> 264.235.5670
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