[RE-wrenches] battery-based inverter

Fri Jan 15 14:37:33 PST 2016

the old sw inverters had something called "generator support", where if the loads exceeded the generator's output, the inverter would forego charging and sync with, and assist the generator's output.

the fx series does not offer this.

do the radian, xw or magnum inverters do this?

thanks,

todd

On Friday, January 15, 2016 2:08pm, "Kevin Pegg" <KPegg at energyalternatives.ca> said:

Hi Jay, 

Thanks for your information. That generator mode sounds like an excellent feature. I guess it is time to give the Radian an opportunity. 

re: XW+ generator charging - interesting point as I was recently trying to get an XW+ 6048 to play happily with an under-sized Honda EU6500 generator and after hrs of tweaking was only able to make it successfully connect without overloading the generator when input amps were set to 2/3 of generators rated continual output. It would be nice to have a slower ramp up to 100% charge rate - something they should be able to do via updated firmware if anyone cared. 

re: XW Power Distribution Panel. I will take credit for that! The first prototype they showed us had these tiny wee little junction boxes reminiscent of DR/SW days that was always lots of fun to cram in several # 6 conductors (ideally when frozen). I lobbied hard for a huge box, and ultimately the end product turned out quite well. 

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of jay
Sent: January-15-16 12:15 PM
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] battery-based inverter

HI Kevin,

I agree that tech support hasn’t been the been the best with OB, I do think its getting better.

As to the charger issues.  The radian has a generator mode that as long as its within voltage limits will use any frequency or harmonics and take it all out.  Amazing.  I wrote here some months ago about a radian that ran the house just fine, but with generator not.  And the generator by itself not either.  But in the generator mode, it was perfect.  And its the only inverter out there with this feature I know of.

And I’ve also just had to work on a set of new XW+ units. They seem to hit the generator super hard on connection.  I had to set the total connection watts to be quite low to make them work.  And that was after very long tech support, that was no help at all. I think there just wasn’t anything they could do.  The customer is having to install a much larger generator to make his chargers work at higher settings.

A few other thoughts about these two inverters.

Radian is field repairable, XW not

Radian has easy firmware upgrades, XW definitely not

Radian has built in WWW access.  XW need addition hardware

Radian has built in AGS, XW not

Mate 3 easier to use than SCP.  Now I know this will be a huge argument,  but try walking a customer through the AGS on a mate 3 vs SCP

Generator mode on radian is amazing.  

For the XW positives.  The XW BOS is large, easy to wire and will handle 3 inverters and 4 CC. I love that box.

Vs the GS box which frankly is a joke.

So I choose the Radian.  its not perfect, but.

Jay

peltz power

On Jan 15, 2016, at 11:59 AM, Kevin Pegg <[ KPegg at energyalternatives.ca ]( mailto:KPegg at energyalternatives.ca )> wrote:

Interesting thread. Our firm wrote off Outback products several years ago for two reasons:

1) beyond abysmal tech support - when we have a problem we need to talk to a skilled, knowledgeable tech, not some kid reading off a script designed for end users; or to sit around for a call back that never happens. 

2) ongoing power quality problems when the inverter was in charge mode via generator, some more sensitive loads would not operate, causing customers complaints. Does this still continue with the radians? 

It is nice to hear that the radians install ok, though luck is not something I like to count on working in the remote bush. I am more interested in Radian installs that were challenging, and was Outback there to expeditiously resolve the issues and have a happy customers?

My bias is towards the XW series. Our firm was involved in the design and initial product testing of the XW system. It was a bit rocky at the start, but has been a relatively stable product. The ability to remotely monitor and program a customer's system is a big plus for a lot of our remote clients.

The two big complaints I have with the XW is the useless battery capacity meter. I know there is an add on module available now but have not tested that. Customers wonder why I put tape over the capacity indicator lights on a brand new inverter. And the other is long term stability. We find in remote automated unattended hybrid cycle charge sites that the inverter will at least once a year screw up, resolved by a power cycle. So we just make it part of maintenance routines to reboot the systems when we are onsite for planned service.

We use SMA Sunny Island product for larger industrial projects. More expensive, more difficult to set up, more difficult to program - but once they are up and running solid with no issues and they take better care of batteries through a smarter charging algorithm.

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches [[ mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org ]( mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org )] On Behalf Of [ john.blittersdorf at gmail.com ]( mailto:john.blittersdorf at gmail.com )
Sent: January-14-16 6:36 PM
To: RE-wrenches <[ re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org ]( mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org )>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] battery-based inverter

Kirk,  I agree with Peter.  I have installed several Radians with good luck.  I installed one SI and it worked ok but was more expensive and very time consuming to install.  Did one XW and would never do it again.  Never has worked right.

John

Central Vermont Solar & Wind

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Jan 14, 2016, at 7:37 PM, Peter Parrish <[ peter.parrish at calsolareng.com ]( mailto:peter.parrish at calsolareng.com )> wrote:

My 2 centavos. Stick with them. I prefer their approach over SMA.

-        Peter

Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D.

President, SolarGnosis

1107 Fair Oaks Ave.

Suite 351

South Pasadena, CA 91030

(323) 839-6108

[ petertor at pobox.com ]( mailto:petertor at pobox.com )

From: RE-wrenches [[ mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org ]( mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org )] On Behalf Of Kirk Herander
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 12:39 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] battery-based inverter

Hello,

Can anyone recommend a good battery-based inverter for grid-intertie? I need both generator and utility inputs, 120 or 240 output. I have experience with the OB Radian series but don’t know what else is out there. Thanks.

Kirk Herander

Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC

Celebrating our 25th Anniversary 1991-2016

[ www.vermontsolarnow.com ]( x-msg://73/www.vermontsolarnow.com )

dba Vermont Solar Engineering

NABCEPTM  2003 Inaugural Certificant

VT RE Incentive Program Partner

802.863.1202

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