[RE-wrenches] SnapNrack

Greg McPheeters gmcpheeters at yahoo.com
Mon Jun 29 12:10:30 PDT 2015


With all this talk of anti-seize in an email thread with "SnapNrack" as the subject line, I just wanted to add another comment which is that we have for several years now shipped all SnapNrack hardware with a wax coating.  This significantly reduces issues with hardware galling even when anti-seize is not used at all.  The coating process on the black hardware seems to even further reduce galling. We still recommend application of anti-seize as a "best practice" but I suspect that 90% (or more) of installs go in without any and feedback from customers on hardware galling has gone down dramatically since we rolled this in.  Perhaps we should promote it more - 

Greg
 Greg McPheetersSenior Engineering Manager, SnapNrack

      From: Ray Walters <ray at solarray.com>
 To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> 
 Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 10:32 AM
 Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SnapNrack
   
  Anti seize also comes in larger cans with a brush, but it still can get messy.
 Also on the torque issue,  I found just using the T handle hex wrench from the manufacturer (we use S Flex) gets the torque where it should be, and even a gorilla can't over torque it too far.
 Old fashioned, but we have less heavy tools to carry on the roof, and no over torque issues.   With lubed threads, the T handle wrench can twirl, which is almost as fast as using a power tool.
 R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760 On 6/29/2015 11:12 AM, Allan Sindelar wrote:
  
 Kurt,
 Less messy, yes; less tedious, maybe: anti-seize also comes in a semi-solid stick form, like a large lip balm tube with a cap and a twist dial on the bottom to raise the level of the anti-seize as it's used. One quick rub on the threads per bolt. Purchased through Fastenal.
 Allan
 
  <!--#yiv1944238807 _filtered #yiv1944238807 {font-family:"MS Mincho";panose-1:2 2 6 9 4 2 5 8 3 4;} _filtered #yiv1944238807 {font-family:"Cambria Math";panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv1944238807 {panose-1:2 2 6 9 4 2 5 8 3 4;}#yiv1944238807 #yiv1944238807 p.yiv1944238807MsoNormal, #yiv1944238807 li.yiv1944238807MsoNormal, #yiv1944238807 div.yiv1944238807MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman", "serif";color:black;}#yiv1944238807 a:link, #yiv1944238807 span.yiv1944238807MsoHyperlink {color:blue;}#yiv1944238807 a:visited, #yiv1944238807 span.yiv1944238807MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:blue;}#yiv1944238807 .yiv1944238807MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv1944238807 {margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;}#yiv1944238807 div.yiv1944238807WordSection1 {}-->  Allan Sindelar
 allan at sindelarsolar.com
 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
 NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
 New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
 Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
 505 780-2738 cell
 
       On 6/29/2015 11:05 AM, Kurt Johnsen wrote:
  
  Esteemed Wrenches, 
 Does anyone know of a less tedious and messy way to lube the bolts than squeeze tube anti-seize? 
 
 My 2 cents; I believe that the torque specs for an engineered assembly are put in there for a reason. Ignoring them puts the installer on the hook for any failures. Aside from being the right thing to do, using torque wrenches helps avoid assuming unnecessary financial risk which my thin margins cannot afford. 
 
  Kurt Johnsen
  
 On Sun, Jun 28, 2015 at 5:27 PM, Ray Walters <ray at solarray.com> wrote:
 
  Besides your note that cordless impact drivers can over torque the clamps, also they spin the bolts too fast which can lead to spalling of the SS hardware.
 We now hand torque those connects.  Finally, most torque specs are for lubricated bolts.  We use anti-seize on the threads before torquing.
 Using a cordless impact driver and no lube can cause not only module damage but also clamp damage, and end up with clamps not actually securing the modules, because the bolts spalled out before fully clamping.
 R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760   On 6/28/2015 3:06 PM, Benn Kilburn wrote:
  
  Chris,
  It sounds (to me) that you are describing the bonding "tooth" dug through the aluminum frame and into the glass? or at least compressed the frame enough to break the glass?  If that is the case then i'm betting that the clamp bolt was way over-torqued.
 
 You need to check the recommended tightening torque for the module and for the racking system you are using.  For example, what we are using these days, Kinetic, the tightening torque for mid and end clamps is 12 ft-lb and  here are some recommended clamping torques from some different module mfgrs....
 Conergy 8 NM - 6 ft-lb
  Hanwha 5 NM - 3.7 ft-lb
  JA Solar 18-24 NM - 13-18 ft-lb
  These likely vary based on the construction of the module frame.
 I've also found that some module mfgrs do not list recommended tightening torques in their install manuals, so best to use discretion.
 
 We had a module break after clamping it down.  The crew described it as 'putting the module in place, clamping it down and turning around to grab the next module and hearing a 'crack' followed by the crackling glass sound (if you have ever heard a module break, the crackling sound can last for a few minutes).  The break pattern in the glass seemed to focus on a particular mid clamp.  I used a torque wrench, set at around 10 ft-lb and checked all the mid-clamp bolts, increasing the torque setting  by a few ft-lb each time until it finally turned a bolt instead of clicking.  I found that most of the bolts were close to 30 ft-lb and the one that appeared to break the glass was about 34 ft-lb.
  Suffice to say, we were getting carried away with tightening using cordless impact drivers.  
  At that point i and the rest of the crew started using the torque wrench as we were going along until we had a better feel for what was the proper torque.  (i've done this before, but it is something that needs to be self "re-calibrated" often.  
  
   
   Benn Kilburn  CSA Certified Solar Photovoltaic Systems Electrician, SkyFire Energy Inc 6706 – 82 Ave NW | Edmonton, AB | T6B 0E7 P: 780-474-8992 | F: 888-405-5843 | www.skyfireenergy.com          
 On Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 5:11 PM, Chris Worcester <chris at solarwindworks.com> wrote:
 
   Hi Jason, Have you or others been using the new UniRac SM mid and end clamps with  the integrated bonding yet? My concern is the “Stainless steel Midclamp points, 2 per module, pierce module frame anodization to  bond module to module through clamp.” We had an MSI Alpha + self-bonding midclamp shatter the glass on an LG  280 last fall, as the factory set point was sticking out too far, so as it was being tightened down, on  top of the module the point dug through the module’s top frame hitting the glass, shattering it. I do wonder if there are any issues with this “point” on the UniRac midclamps potential for doing the same damage?   Chris Worcester Solar Wind Works NABCEP Certified PV Installer Office 530-582-4503 Cell 530-448-9692 Fax 530-582-4603 www.solarwindworks.com chris at solarwindworks.com   From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jason Szumlanski
 Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2015 1:13 PM
 To: RE-wrenches
 Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SnapNrack    That decision was based on our distribution network offering better pricing on Unirac,  and engineers being comfortable with it. Now with the integrated grounding from Unirac, I can't see moving away from it again barring a significant cost benefit. It also  stacks and stocks easier than the Ironridge rails.  
                           On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 5:55 PM, Dana Brandt <dana at ecotechenergy.com> wrote:    Hi Jason,  We've used Unirac for years but have been  contemplating Ironridge. I'm curious what your experience was and why  you went back to Unirac? 
 
 Anyone else have input on best racking systems  for flush-mounted residential systems on comp roof?   Thanks,  
     Dana
 
 Dana Brandt
 Ecotech Energy Systems, LLC
 www.ecotechenergy.com
 dana at ecotechenergy.com
 360.318.7646       On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 12:09 PM, Jason  Szumlanski <jason at fafcosolar.com> wrote:   By Snap N Rack, you mean Sun Run...       http://cleantechnica.com/2014/02/05/sunrun-acquires-rec-solars-residential-business-aee-solar-snapnrack-means/       I'm curious if these vertical  integrators will still make their acquired brands available to small dealers  through distribution. When SolarCity  snatched up Zep, I had concerns  about being able to service or add onto  existing Zep systems we installed.  That's definitely a  concern going forward, and reason to  perhaps stick with the most compatible racking solutions  available. We used IronRidge for a while,  which is largely compatible with  Unirac, but now we're back on the Unirac  bandwagon.        Interesting times...       Jason Szumlanski  ​Fafco Solar​               On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 12:45  PM, Max Balchowsky <max at seesolar.com> wrote:    We have been using Snap N'  Rack for a while, Have lots of  installs in Hawaii - so  far no problems, I like the  convenience of the design for snapping in the slider nut in mid rail,  and also the ability to install the panels flush with the end  of the rails….        Max Balchowsky
 Design Engineer
 SEE Systems
 1048 Irvine Ave Suite 217
 Newport Beach, Ca. 92660
 760-403-6810   "Building a Better Future For The  Next Generation"            From: Allen Frishman <amfrish at aeonsolar.com>
 To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> 
 Sent: Wednesday, February 5,  2014 6:17 AM
 Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches]  SnapNrack         I am curious about the mid  clamps on the snapnrack.   The flange that rests on  top of the solar panel frame is so  small ~ 3/16".    Anyone experience any problems with  these failing in a big storm?    With solar panel frames not  being square it is nice to have a little extra to grab - I am always  curious as to why these clips are made  with such a small area to  hold the panels down.         All feedback on these clips is  appreciated.    Al Frishman
 AeonSolar   (917) 699-6641 - cell
 (888) 460-2867
 www.aeonsolar.com        On Jun 1, 2013, at 10:41 AM,  Max Balchowsky wrote:  
 
     Have installed last three systems  (35Kw)with snap n rack.   love it....       Max Balchowsky
 Design Engineer
 SEE Systems
 1048 Irvine Ave Suite 217
 Newport Beach, Ca. 92660
 760-403-6810   "Building a Better Future For The  Next Generation"           From: Solarguy <ntrei at 1scom.net>
 To: 'RE-wrenches' <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> 
 Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 10:11  PM
 Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches]  SnapNrack         The only complaint with the Snapnrack rails is the thin wall can easily be distorted. This will  allow the nut to drop out of its groove. Love the universal end  clamps but have learned to assemble  every one to check for  proper fit before getting on the roof.   Jim Duncan   -----Original Message-----
 From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Drake
 Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013  7:32 PM
 To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
 Subject: [RE-wrenches]  SnapNrack       Hello Wrenches,       How would you rate the SnapNrack  mounting systems against Unirac  and other mounting  systems?       Thanks,       Drake       _______________________________________________   List sponsored by Home Power  magazine       List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org       Change email address & settings:   http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org       List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org       List rules & etiquette:   www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm       Check out participant  bios:   www.members.re-wrenches.org     
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