[RE-wrenches] SnapNrack
Ray Walters
ray at solarray.com
Mon Jun 29 10:32:21 PDT 2015
Anti seize also comes in larger cans with a brush, but it still can get
messy.
Also on the torque issue, I found just using the T handle hex wrench
from the manufacturer (we use S Flex) gets the torque where it should
be, and even a gorilla can't over torque it too far.
Old fashioned, but we have less heavy tools to carry on the roof, and no
over torque issues. With lubed threads, the T handle wrench can twirl,
which is almost as fast as using a power tool.
R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760
On 6/29/2015 11:12 AM, Allan Sindelar wrote:
> Kurt,
> Less messy, yes; less tedious, maybe: anti-seize also comes in a
> semi-solid stick form, like a large lip balm tube with a cap and a
> twist dial on the bottom to raise the level of the anti-seize as it's
> used. One quick rub on the threads per bolt. Purchased through Fastenal.
> Allan
>
> *Allan Sindelar*
> allan at sindelarsolar.com <mailto:allan at sindelarsolar.com>
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
> New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
> Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
> *505 780-2738 cell*
>
> **
>
> On 6/29/2015 11:05 AM, Kurt Johnsen wrote:
>> Esteemed Wrenches,
>> Does anyone know of a less tedious and messy way to lube the bolts
>> than squeeze tube anti-seize?
>>
>> My 2 cents; I believe that the torque specs for an engineered
>> assembly are put in there for a reason. Ignoring them puts the
>> installer on the hook for any failures. Aside from being the right
>> thing to do, using torque wrenches helps avoid assuming unnecessary
>> financial risk which my thin margins cannot afford.
>>
>> Kurt Johnsen
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 28, 2015 at 5:27 PM, Ray Walters <ray at solarray.com
>> <mailto:ray at solarray.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Besides your note that cordless impact drivers can over torque
>> the clamps, also they spin the bolts too fast which can lead to
>> spalling of the SS hardware.
>> We now hand torque those connects. Finally, most torque specs
>> are for lubricated bolts. We use anti-seize on the threads
>> before torquing.
>> Using a cordless impact driver and no lube can cause not only
>> module damage but also clamp damage, and end up with clamps not
>> actually securing the modules, because the bolts spalled out
>> before fully clamping.
>>
>> R.Ray Walters
>> CTO, Solarray, Inc
>> Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
>> Licensed Master Electrician
>> Solar Design Engineer
>> 303 505-8760 <tel:303%20505-8760>
>>
>> On 6/28/2015 3:06 PM, Benn Kilburn wrote:
>>> Chris,
>>> It sounds (to me) that you are describing the bonding "tooth"
>>> dug through the aluminum frame and into the glass? or at least
>>> compressed the frame enough to break the glass? If that is the
>>> case then i'm betting that the clamp bolt was way over-torqued.
>>>
>>> You need to check the recommended tightening torque for the
>>> module and for the racking system you are using. For example,
>>> what we are using these days, Kinetic, the tightening torque for
>>> mid and end clamps is 12 ft-lb and here are some recommended
>>> clamping torques from some different module mfgrs....
>>> Conergy 8 NM - 6 ft-lb
>>> Hanwha 5 NM - 3.7 ft-lb
>>> JA Solar 18-24 NM - 13-18 ft-lb
>>> These likely vary based on the construction of the module frame.
>>> I've also found that some module mfgrs do not list recommended
>>> tightening torques in their install manuals, so best to use
>>> discretion.
>>>
>>> We had a module break after clamping it down. The crew described
>>> it as 'putting the module in place, clamping it down and turning
>>> around to grab the next module and hearing a 'crack' followed by
>>> the crackling glass sound (if you have ever heard a module
>>> break, the crackling sound can last for a few minutes). The
>>> break pattern in the glass seemed to focus on a particular mid
>>> clamp. I used a torque wrench, set at around 10 ft-lb and
>>> checked all the mid-clamp bolts, increasing the torque setting
>>> by a few ft-lb each time until it finally turned a bolt instead
>>> of clicking. I found that most of the bolts were close to 30
>>> ft-lb and the one that appeared to break the glass was about 34
>>> ft-lb.
>>> Suffice to say, we were getting carried away with tightening
>>> using cordless impact drivers.
>>> At that point i and the rest of the crew started using the
>>> torque wrench as we were going along until we had a better feel
>>> for what was the proper torque. (i've done this before, but it
>>> is something that needs to be self "re-calibrated" often.
>>>
>>>
>>> *Benn Kilburn *
>>> CSA Certified Solar Photovoltaic Systems Electrician, SkyFire
>>> Energy Inc
>>> 6706 – 82 Ave NW | Edmonton, AB | T6B 0E7
>>> P: 780-474-8992 <tel:780-474-8992> | F: 888-405-5843
>>> <tel:888-405-5843> | www.skyfireenergy.com
>>> <http://www.skyfireenergy.com/>
>>> email <mailto:benn at skyfireenergy.com> facebook
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/SkyFireEnergy> twitter
>>> <https://twitter.com/SkyFireEnergy> linkedin
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/283735?trk=tyah&trkInfo=tarId%3A1408655033432%2Ctas%3Askyfire%2Cidx%3A2-2-5>
>>> google <https://plus.google.com/+SkyFireEnergy/>
>>>
>>> SkyFire Energy Logo_horizontal
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 5:11 PM, Chris Worcester
>>> <chris at solarwindworks.com <mailto:chris at solarwindworks.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Jason,
>>>
>>> Have you or others been using the new UniRac SM mid and end
>>> clamps with the integrated bonding yet? My concern is the
>>> “Stainless steel Midclamp points, 2 per module, pierce
>>> module frame anodization to bond module to module through
>>> clamp.”
>>>
>>> We had an MSI Alpha + self-bonding midclamp shatter the
>>> glass on an LG 280 last fall, as the factory set point was
>>> sticking out too far, so as it was being tightened down, on
>>> top of the module the point dug through the module’s top
>>> frame hitting the glass, shattering it.
>>>
>>> I do wonder if there are any issues with this “point” on the
>>> UniRac midclamps potential for doing the same damage?
>>>
>>> Chris Worcester
>>>
>>> Solar Wind Works
>>>
>>> NABCEP Certified PV Installer
>>>
>>> Office 530-582-4503 <tel:530-582-4503>
>>>
>>> Cell 530-448-9692 <tel:530-448-9692>
>>>
>>> Fax 530-582-4603 <tel:530-582-4603>
>>>
>>> www.solarwindworks.com <http://www.solarwindworks.com>
>>>
>>> chris at solarwindworks.com <mailto:chris at solarwindworks.com>
>>>
>>> *From:*RE-wrenches
>>> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>> <mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>] *On
>>> Behalf Of *Jason Szumlanski
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 25, 2015 1:13 PM
>>> *To:* RE-wrenches
>>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] SnapNrack
>>>
>>> That decision was based on our distribution network offering
>>> better pricing on Unirac, and engineers being comfortable
>>> with it. Now with the integrated grounding from Unirac, I
>>> can't see moving away from it again barring a significant
>>> cost benefit. It also stacks and stocks easier than the
>>> Ironridge rails.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 5:55 PM, Dana Brandt
>>> <dana at ecotechenergy.com <mailto:dana at ecotechenergy.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Jason,
>>>
>>> We've used Unirac for years but have been contemplating
>>> Ironridge. I'm curious what your experience was and why you
>>> went back to Unirac?
>>>
>>> Anyone else have input on best racking systems for
>>> flush-mounted residential systems on comp roof?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>>
>>> Dana
>>>
>>> Dana Brandt
>>> Ecotech Energy Systems, LLC
>>> www.ecotechenergy.com <http://www.ecotechenergy.com>
>>> dana at ecotechenergy.com <mailto:dana at ecotechenergy.com>
>>> 360.318.7646 <tel:360.318.7646>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 12:09 PM, Jason Szumlanski
>>> <jason at fafcosolar.com <mailto:jason at fafcosolar.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> By Snap N Rack, you mean Sun Run...
>>>
>>> http://cleantechnica.com/2014/02/05/sunrun-acquires-rec-solars-residential-business-aee-solar-snapnrack-means/
>>>
>>> I'm curious if these vertical integrators will still make
>>> their acquired brands available to small dealers through
>>> distribution. When SolarCity snatched up Zep, I had concerns
>>> about being able to service or add onto existing Zep systems
>>> we installed. That's definitely a concern going forward, and
>>> reason to perhaps stick with the most compatible racking
>>> solutions available. We used IronRidge for a while, which is
>>> largely compatible with Unirac, but now we're back on the
>>> Unirac bandwagon.
>>>
>>> Interesting times...
>>>
>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>>
>>> Fafco Solar
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 12:45 PM, Max Balchowsky
>>> <max at seesolar.com <mailto:max at seesolar.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> We have been using Snap N' Rack for a while, Have lots of
>>> installs in Hawaii - so far no problems, I like the
>>> convenience of the design for snapping in the slider nut in
>>> mid rail, and also the ability to install the panels flush
>>> with the end of the rails….
>>>
>>> Max Balchowsky
>>> Design Engineer
>>> SEE Systems
>>> 1048 Irvine Ave Suite 217
>>> Newport Beach, Ca. 92660
>>> 760-403-6810 <tel:760-403-6810>
>>>
>>> "Building a Better Future For The Next Generation"
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> *From:*Allen Frishman <amfrish at aeonsolar.com
>>> <mailto:amfrish at aeonsolar.com>>
>>> *To:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>> <mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 5, 2014 6:17 AM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] SnapNrack
>>>
>>> I am curious about the mid clamps on the snapnrack. The
>>> flange that rests on top of the solar panel frame is so
>>> small ~ 3/16". Anyone experience any problems with these
>>> failing in a big storm? With solar panel frames not being
>>> square it is nice to have a little extra to grab - I am
>>> always curious as to why these clips are made with such a
>>> small area to hold the panels down.
>>>
>>> All feedback on these clips is appreciated.
>>>
>>> /Al Frishman/
>>> AeonSolar
>>>
>>> /(917) 699-6641 <tel:%28917%29%20699-6641> - cell/
>>> /(888) 460-2867 <tel:%28888%29%20460-2867>/
>>> /www.aeonsolar.com <http://www.aeonsolar.com/>/
>>>
>>> On Jun 1, 2013, at 10:41 AM, Max Balchowsky wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Have installed last three systems (35Kw)with snap n rack.
>>>
>>> love it....
>>>
>>> Max Balchowsky
>>> Design Engineer
>>> SEE Systems
>>> 1048 Irvine Ave Suite 217
>>> Newport Beach, Ca. 92660
>>> 760-403-6810 <tel:760-403-6810>
>>>
>>> "Building a Better Future For The Next Generation"
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> *From:*Solarguy <ntrei at 1scom.net <mailto:ntrei at 1scom.net>>
>>> *To:* 'RE-wrenches' <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>> <mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>>
>>> *Sent:* Friday, May 31, 2013 10:11 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] SnapNrack
>>>
>>> The only complaint with the Snapnrack rails is the thin wall
>>> can easily be distorted. This will allow the nut to drop out
>>> of its groove. Love the universal end clamps but have
>>> learned to assemble every one to check for proper fit before
>>> getting on the roof.
>>>
>>> Jim Duncan
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>> <mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>>> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>> <mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>] On
>>> Behalf Of Drake
>>> Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 7:32 PM
>>> To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>> <mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>>> Subject: [RE-wrenches] SnapNrack
>>>
>>> Hello Wrenches,
>>>
>>> How would you rate the SnapNrack mounting systems against
>>> Unirac and other mounting systems?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Drake
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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