[RE-wrenches] Fw: Xantrex C-40 Drifting

Jarmo.Venalainen at schneider-electric.com Jarmo.Venalainen at schneider-electric.com
Wed May 20 18:34:05 PDT 2015


Hi:

My thought is that the mechanism by which the battery voltage slowly rises 
under the influence of a solar module connected through a C40 type PWM 
controller is due to the fact that the PWM type controllers don't regulate 
voltage but rather connect the full output voltage of the module/array to 
the battery on a pulse width limited basis.

Seems that those high voltage pulses, brief as they may be thanks to the 
PWM, are still none the less able to slowly raise the resting terminal 
voltage of at least some types of AGM batteries.

I don't know enough about batteries to know if that is a problem or not. 
Perhaps its perfectly normal as almost any new lead acid battery will 
retain a higher than normal measurable "ghost voltage" just after it has 
been fully charged.

JARMO


_____________________________________________________________________________________ 


Jarmo Venalainen  |   Schneider Electric   |  Xantrex Brand  |   CANADA  | 
  Sales Application Engineer 
Phone: +604-422-2528  |   Tech Support: 800-670-0707  |   Mobile: 
+604-505-0291 
Email: jarmo.venalainen at schneider-electric.com  |   Site: www.Xantrex.com 
|   Address: 3700 Gilmore Way, Burnaby, BC V5G4M1 








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From:
Drake <drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org>
To:
RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>, 
Date:
05/20/2015 11:11 AM
Subject:
Re: [RE-wrenches] Fw:  Xantrex C-40 Drifting
Sent by:
"RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>



The modules are Sunwise 22 V, 40 W modules.  The model number of the 
modules is SW-S40P SWT.  The are wired in series for a 24 V nominal 
system.  That would be an mppt voltage of 44 V on a system that directs 
batteries to absorb at 29.4 volts. I'm not sure what the NOCT voltage 
would be, but it would seem like it would be an ok fit? 

I think you are on the right track with the MPPT charging graph. The CC 
likely allows pulses of full charge to hit when the batteries are at their 
maximum set point voltage. 

Would a very short pulse of high voltage be a problem of a VRLA battery? 
Could any significant gassing take place? 

Thanks,

Drake 



At 06:04 PM 5/19/2015, you wrote:
Hi: 

We haven't changed anything the in C40.  The essence of my idea was that 
perhaps the "trouble" systems are the ones which have much higher module 
Voc versus battery Vfloat. 

JARMO
_____________________________________________________________________________________ 


Jarmo Venalainen  |  Schneider Electric   |  Xantrex Brand  |   CANADA  |  
Sales Application Engineer 
Phone: +604-422-2528  |   Tech Support: 800-670-0707  |   Mobile: 
+604-505-0291 
Email: jarmo.venalainen at schneider-electric.com  |   Site: www.Xantrex.com  
 |   Address: 3700 Gilmore Way, Burnaby, BC V5G4M1 
  


*** Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail



From: Ray Walters <ray at solarray.com> 
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>, 
Date: 05/19/2015 11:00 AM 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Fw:  Xantrex C-40 Drifting 
Sent by: "RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org> 




Hi Jarmo;

Early solar systems actually tried to use the principle of matching array 
Vmpp to battery voltage  in lieu of charge controllers.  The biggest issue 
is that when it is is hot the module voltage can drop below the battery 
voltage needed, and when its cold the voltage will still be too high. 
Batteries were either over charged or never reached full charge depending 
on the conditions.
I've used the C40 successfully for decades, so I'm wondering if the 
circuitry changed recently, or if different tolerance components were 
substituted that may be causing the drift?

Thanks, 
R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760 
On 5/19/2015 10:31 AM, Jarmo.Venalainen at schneider-electric.com wrote: 
Hi: 

I didn't know that there were systems out there where a PWM charge 
controller such as the C-40 was producing an unhealthy, high battery 
voltage.  Since there are, I may have a possible explanation. 

The C-series and other PWM type charge controllers operate by PWM whereby 
they very very quickly connect/disconnect the solar module to the battery 
bank.  The amount of time which the module is connected to the array is 
the PWM on-period.  These controllers do not have the ability to "smooth 
out" the output voltage.  All they can do is apply the full module voltage 
OR not a 


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