[RE-wrenches] Off Grid Inverter Replacement Questions

Mon Feb 9 11:14:11 PST 2015

AS someone who works almost exclusively with off grid battery based
inverters for years.  I would recommend staying away from the outback line
of inverters.  We are seeing outback failures in units that are only 2 to 3
years old, once you get through to the Tech Support generally a 30 to 40
min hold time and forget about the "call you back feature" unless you want
a call back in three days.  The board replacements that we get are a total
crap shoot.  I have had replacement boards fail within minutes and many of
them within in months and there is no warranty on the boards.

I would go with Magun Hybrid as it is a 120 V AC unit and has load assist
like the old SW's.  We are always sorry to replace the old SW units but
after 20+ years of service I guess they have put in their work.  Magnum has
provided us with reliable service since we started installing them 6 Years
ago.  I hope they keep their product as reliable with the new owners.

my two cents
Daniel

Daniel Tittmann
CTO
Greenwired
www.greenwired.com
daniel at greenwired.com
707-923-2001 (office)
707-206-5088 (Cell)

On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 9:01 PM, John Blittersdorf <
john.blittersdorf at gmail.com> wrote:

> Allan,
>     I would replace with a VFX3524 and a Mate3 as long as the backup
> generator is big enough.  FX's don't load share or gen support. I have had
> lousy luck with getting several magnums repaired.  All have been switched
> to Outback.  The Radian would be a nightmare to install compared to a
> single FX.  I sell Radians primarily for grid tie backup systems and very
> high demand off grid. And to replace Magnums.  I have had no trouble with
> Outback service and getting boards for on site repairs. Quality of boards
> OK. The Mate 3 is more intuitive than the Mate and has lots more
> information.  Works fabulously with OpticsRE for monitoring.   I have a
> remote mountaintop transmitter site that has been a nightmare for years and
> now we finally got all the pieces together at one time to make it work..
> Good generator (EcoGen) new batteries, and 4000 watts of solar on top of
> pole racks (to self clear of snow) VFX3648 with IOTA 12v battery charger
> for the DC Loads, and the MATE3 hooked up to the internet and OpticsRE.
> All is now calm on the mountaintop.
>
> John Blittersdorf
> Central Vermont Solar & wind
>
> On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 8:02 PM, Allan Sindelar <allan at sindelarsolar.com>
> wrote:
>
>>  Esteemed Wrenches,
>> This question is prompted by a specific customer's situation, and I have
>> a question related to this, but I'm mainly using the situation to ask a
>> broader question.
>>
>> The specific situation: A customer's Xantrex SW+2524 has been acting
>> erratically. Fixing the inverter is not the issue; the client is quite
>> remote, and costs of diagnosis, parts and labor for these legacy units have
>> gone up enough that the customer has already decided to replace the unit
>> with a current product. From my perspective, the issues at hand revolve
>> around how to safely and cleanly install a modern inverter into a system
>> structured around old equipment.
>>
>> The specific question: Outback's FX series is the current product that
>> most readily replaces the SW/SW+ series: it's also 120V in/out, and it has
>> DC on the right and AC in/out on the left of a horizontally-laid out unit.
>> However, several times in recent years I have heard disparaging comments,
>> both here and in private conversations, about the purported drop in quality
>> of Outback's inverters and controllers since Alpha bought them, but
>> specifically because units, or parts of units, are now made in China,
>> rather than in the U.S. What I want to know, please, are answers to two+
>> questions: 1) what's the real scoop? what is now made where? and 2) what
>> actual experiences, specifically product failures, have any of you had that
>> directly relate to changes directly attributable to overseas production? In
>> other words, how much of this is real and how much is rumor?
>>
>> The bigger question (and this issue will come up frequently in the coming
>> years): the SW+, like the SW before it, operates at 120V AC on both input
>> and output. More and more modern battery-based inverters input and output
>> split-phase 120/240V AC. When should I hesitate to replace a 120V legacy
>> inverter with a 120/240V unit?
>>
>> Among larger whole-house single inverters, Outback's FX and VFX units
>> operate at 120V, but these are older models. SMA's Sunny Island is 120V
>> only, but this is generally considered a weakness in typical SI
>> installations, and these expensive units don't adapt as well as
>> replacements in older home systems. Magnum's MS4024 is available in either
>> configuration. Outback's Radian and Schneider's XW and Conext SW are only
>> available as 120-240 units.
>>
>> Here are the issues that I see:
>> Don't do it if a backup generator is 120V AC-only. It will work, but is
>> hard on the inverters, as all charging current will come in on one leg of
>> the inverter's AC input. Fortunately, relatively few generators are
>> 120V-only; pretty much just the smaller inverter-generators. Most cheaper
>> gennies are 240V, and either run through a step-down balancing transformer
>> (which would be taken out with the old 120V inverter) or run out of
>> balance. Many better portable generators have a 120/120-240 switch, making
>> it necessary to only replace a cable and plug to add a second hot conductor.
>>
>> Also, most older AC switchgear, such as QO403 inverter bypass switches,
>> are set up for single pole breakers, and would thus require replacement,
>> and reworking in general on the AC side to handle two hot input and output
>> conductors.
>>
>> But once the jumper between the two hot legs is removed in the AC main
>> panel, and two hots are connected, making the panel 120-240, what are the
>> concerns that I might not have anticipated? Are there any hidden dangers,
>> or situations where this change could cause problems, especially in AC
>> distribution?
>>
>> Thanks in advance. I hope that I don't regret posting this late on a
>> Friday...
>> Allan
>> --
>>
>> *Allan Sindelar*
>> allan at sindelarsolar.com
>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
>> NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
>> New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
>> Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
>> *505 780-2738 <505%20780-2738> cell*
>>
>>
>>
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