[RE-wrenches] Suspect MX 60
Drake
drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org
Thu Nov 20 08:17:27 PST 2014
Hi Jay,
The MX 60 has just under 1 kW on it.
We added another 1020 W on another pole and used a separate CC. The
system is being used continually as the house is a full time off grid
residence.
Drake
At 05:58 PM 11/19/2014, you wrote:
>Hi Drake,
>
>out of curiosity,
>1. how many watts of pv
>2. how much is the system being use?
>
>jay
>peltz power
>
>
>On Nov 19, 2014, at 2:40 PM, Drake wrote:
>
>>We have been considering sending the MX 60 in for a firmware
>>update. From what the tech support guy said, all the firmware
>>update would do would be to allow the CC to talk to the Mate and
>>keep voltage spikes from showing up on the display. Does the
>>firmware update have other benefits?
>>
>>At present, the system seems to be working correctly. Should I
>>still replace the temperature sensor?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Drake
>>
>>At 12:30 PM 11/19/2014, you wrote:
>>>To add; I am a firm believer that every few years I will send OB
>>>CC/Mates in for firmware up date. I will repole an off grid system
>>>at least twice a year. Temp sensor is imperative! and if the site
>>>is not maned do not set auto eq.
>>>On Nov 18, 2014, at 1:40 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote:
>>>
>>>>Drake,
>>>>I'll add just a bit to Jarmo's excellent reply:
>>>>You mentioned that you were unsure if the MX60 was set to
>>>>auto-EQ. This could be a source of trouble. The MX60 had the
>>>>unfortunate characteristic whereby if set to auto-EQ, it would
>>>>continue to try to complete an EQ indefinitely once triggered. As
>>>>such, if the array was not sufficient to hold the batteries above
>>>>the EQ voltage for the set duration, or as the batteries aged and
>>>>their internal resistance increased such that the EQ voltage
>>>>couldn't be maintained, the controller would never complete and
>>>>exit EQ mode. 31V, while conservative, is high enough to cause this.
>>>>
>>>>If that is what occurred here, then disabling automatic EQ and
>>>>reducing the EQ voltage below gassing threshold should prevent recurrence.
>>>>Allan
>>>>
>>>>Allan Sindelar
>>>><mailto:allan at sindelarsolar.com>allan at sindelarsolar.com
>>>>NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
>>>>NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
>>>>New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
>>>>Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
>>>>505 780-2738 cell
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On 11/18/2014 11:03 AM,
>>>><mailto:Jarmo.Venalainen at schneider-electric.com>Jarmo.Venalainen at schneider-electric.com
>>>>wrote:
>>>>>Hi:
>>>>>
>>>>>This may not be the problem, but I wanted to bring it up as I
>>>>>have heard of a few cases of battery boiling issues with various
>>>>>charge controllers and want to suggest a possible cause.
>>>>>
>>>>>I'll do this point form. It's easier to describe it that way:
>>>>>
>>>>>1. Solar charge controllers are programmed to go to bulk charge
>>>>>in the morning.
>>>>>2. The intensity of the sunlight starts off low in the morning
>>>>>and depending on the weather during the day, the intensity can
>>>>>reach any level between virtually 0% and 100%.
>>>>>3. The exit criteria for bulk is that the battery voltage
>>>>>reaches the Vbulk/abs volts setting or a bulk/abs timer times out.
>>>>>4. If the sunlight conditions are just right to keep the
>>>>>charging voltage just below the Vbulk/abs setpoint, the exit
>>>>>from bulk/abs will be the timer.
>>>>>5. Bulk/Abs timers are usually set for rather a long time, many
>>>>>hours is not uncommon.
>>>>>6. Given the above, it is possible that the battery stays at
>>>>>gassing voltages for many hours every day at certain times of
>>>>>the year when the sunlight intensity is just right to support that.
>>>>>7. As a consequence the boiling problem will show up only at
>>>>>particular sites, particular battery/charge controller sizes and
>>>>>particular times of year.
>>>>>
>>>>>Again, I am not suggesting that this is necessarily the cause of
>>>>>battery "boiling" in systems with solar charge controllers, but
>>>>>it could be a reason.
>>>>>
>>>>>2nd ps. All manufacturers do precise battery voltage/current
>>>>>measurements on the bench with a wide variety of conditions, but
>>>>>we will never be able to simulate the 1000's of conditions that
>>>>>happen on the 1000's of installs out there. With that in mind,
>>>>>on-site battery voltage/current data logging is a very powerful
>>>>>tool when investigating these kinds of issues.
>>>>>
>>>>>JARMO
>>>>>_____________________________________________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Jarmo Venalainen | Schneider Electric | Solar
>>>>>Business | CANADA | Training & Development Specialist - Senior
>>>>>Phone: +604-422-2528 | Fax: +604-420-1591 | Mobile: +604-505-0291
>>>>>Email:
>>>>><mailto:jarmo.venalainen at schneider-electric.com>jarmo.venalainen at schneider-electric.com
>>>>>| Site: www.SEsolar.com | Address: 3700 Gilmore Way, Burnaby, BC V5G4M1
>>>>>
>>>>><http://%20www.sesolar.com/><Mail Attachment.jpeg>
>>>>>*** Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>From: Drake
>>>>><mailto:drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org><drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org>
>>>>>
>>>>>To: RE-wrenches
>>>>><mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org><re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>,
>>>>>Date: 11/18/2014 09:15 AM
>>>>>Subject: [RE-wrenches] Suspect MX 60
>>>>>Sent by: "RE-wrenches"
>>>>><mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org><re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Hello Wrenches,
>>>>>
>>>>>An MX 60 boiled a 24 volt bank of 4 Trojan L-16 batteries last
>>>>>summer. The batteries all checked out to be in good shape. It is
>>>>>not totally clear that the CC was not set to auto equalize, but
>>>>>the EQ voltage was only set at 31.0 V.
>>>>>
>>>>>The battery bank has been replaced by 8 Full River L-16 AGM
>>>>>batteries. The parameters have all been reset for AGM with EQ
>>>>>disabled. The homeowners are concerned that the charge control
>>>>>may not work, and damage their new battery bank.
>>>>>
>>>>>If there is a problem with the CC, it is very intermittent. Has
>>>>>anyone ever seen an intermittent MX 60?
>>>>>
>>>>>Outback tech support says if we send it in they will update the
>>>>>firmware for $90, and do a 24 hour bench test. It appears that
>>>>>the firmware update will not do anything useful for this off
>>>>>grid system. There are no new boards available for this unit.
>>>>>I'm not sure if the bench test will show up an intermittent problem.
>>>>>
>>>>>Has anyone had this situation before? Would it be better to:
>>>>> * Replace the CC
>>>>> * Send the CC to Outback
>>>>> * Do nothing
>>>>>Thank you,
>>>>>
>>>>>Drake
>>>>>
>>>>>Drake Chamberlin
>>>>>Athens Electric LLC
>>>>>OH License 44810
>>>>>CO License 3773
>>>>>NABCEP Certified Solar PV
>>>>>740-448-7328
>>>>><http://athens-electric.com/>http://athens-electric.com/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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