[RE-wrenches] Magnum and Pumps

Wed Jul 2 11:55:59 PDT 2014

Hi Roy,

The FullRiver DC400-6 AGM battery can issue 2000 amps for 5 seconds so he should be fine.

Larry

On Jul 2, 2014, at 12:35 PM, Roy Butler <roy at four-winds-energy.com> wrote:

I haven't seen anyone mention the battery bank. If I understand correctly, there's a single string of sealed
L16 batteries on this inverter. I have my doubts as to whether or not that bank can provide the high current
the inverter needs to start this load.
Roy Butler
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer®
NYSERDA eligible PV & wind installer
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Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC
8902 Route 46, Arkport, NY 14807
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On 7/2/2014 2:10 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
> To further qualify my statements, the inverter will start the pump without issue, but I should echo the warnings by others that if there are other loads present, especially other motor loads that could start concurrently, you may experience issues. As long as your customer understands the limitations and possibilities, you may be just fine.
> 
> 
> Jason Szumlanski
>  Fafco Solar 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 11:00 AM, Jason Szumlanski <jason at fafcosolar.com> wrote:
> For what it's worth, I've run a single speed 1.5HP pool pump with a MS4448PAE in a mobile application on a 38.4kWh battery bank (sixteen Rolls S-530's). I have also run a 2.5HP Hayward EcoStar Variable Speed pool pump at full RPM, but that startup current is likely less than you well pump.
> 
> I'm going to guess your 3/4HP well pump will be a breeze to start with this inverter.
> 
> 
> Jason Szumlanski 
>  Fafco Solar 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Allan Sindelar <allan at sindelarsolar.com> wrote:
> Drake,
> As a normal CYA, I'll always gently let a customer know that this (or any) particular combination of inverter and load sometimes proves incompatible, just in case the unexpected happens. (We once had a MS4448 that would not reliably start and run a condensing boiler; a switch to a different boiler resolved the issue.)
> 
> Having said that note of caution, I wouldn't give it any concern. 3/4 HP and 1 HP well pumps have never been an issue; I would expect 1.5 HP to be easy to run. At 2 HP I'd be asking these questions here. 
> 
> You might check that it's a 3-wire, capacitor-start motor, but nowadays nearly all are. Two-wire pumps (with no control box) can add 50% to the surge.
> 
> The Magnum has a fairly poor voltage regulation response. Sometimes the AC voltage can drop to ~80 VAC momentarily. So you might also caution your customer that the lights may flicker when the pump starts. In our home we know whenever our Kenmore fridge turns on.
> 
> Allan
> 
> Allan Sindelar
> allan at sindelarsolar.com
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
> New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
> Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
> 505 780-2738 cell
> 
> 
>  
> On 7/2/2014 8:17 AM, Drake wrote:
>> Hello Wrenches,
>> 
>> We are hoping to use a Magnum PAE 4448 to back up a household that includes a 3/4 HP deep well pump. There is about 120 feet of vertical rise and about 1000 feet of horizontal distance. 
>> 
>> I have been told that there is a correlation between the locked rotor current of a pump and the predictable ability of a specified inverter to power that pump. 
>> 
>> The plumber who installed the pump left no paperwork and retained no records of what pump he put in the hole last year. He could only say it was a 3/4 HP pump. We are therefore unable to obtain the manufacturer's nameplate specifications.
>> 
>> The Magnum PAE 4448 has a 1 mS surge of 70 A (at 240 V) and a 100 MS surge of 40 A. According to the NEC Table 430.251(A), a 3/4 HP motor has a locked rotor current of 41.4 amps at 230 V. 
>> 
>> This inverter can surge at 35.4 A for 5 seconds. The specified battery bank will be 8 Full River  L-16 AGMs. Can anyone say if:
>> Is there enough information to know if this setup will handle the pump, and if so, will it?
>> How can an inverter's ability to power a motor or pump be calculated by knowing its locked rotor current? Which surge periods should be compared to the locked rotor current?
>> Does the surge current need to equal locked rotor. How long must the inverter meet its required maximum surge?
>> From experience with Magnums and pumps, does this seem like a good combination?
>> 
>> Thank you,
>> 
>> Drake 
>> 
>> Drake Chamberlin
>> Athens Electric LLC
>> OH License 44810
>> CO License 3773
>> NABCEP Certified Solar PV 
>> 740-448-7328
>> http://athens-electric.com/ 
> 
> 
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