[RE-wrenches] Power One Micro inverters

James Reismiller james at abundantsolar.com
Wed Dec 18 16:52:01 PST 2013



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Subject: RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 6, Issue 455

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Hi All,
   We tried to commission our first Power One micro inverter system last
month and had one bad inverter out of the box (getting RMA now), and about
1/3 of inverters are not producing due to a bad country code.  I've spent at
least 3 hours on the phone with tech support and they now admit it's a
design problem.  The inverters need communication with the CDD in order to
start for the first time.

Save yourself the trouble and DO NOT INSTALL THESE INVERTERS NOW! Until
they’ve worked out these issues, don’t torture yourself!

Regards,
James Reismiller
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer®
Abundant Solar
541-231-8772
CCB#175919

www.abundantsolar.com

”I’d put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I
hope we don’t have to wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle
that.”-Thomas Edison





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Today's Topics:

   1. Power One Micro inverters (Roland Shackelford)
   2. Re: Power One Micro inverters (William Miller)
   3. Re: Power One Micro inverters (Jason Szumlanski)
   4. Re: Power One Micro inverters (August Goers)
   5. Re: Chloride batteries (Ray Walters)
   6. Re: Power One Micro inverters (Roberto Kruse)
   7. Re: Power One Micro inverters (Roland Shackelford)
   8. Re: Power One Micro inverters (Roland Shackelford)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 09:05:25 -1000
From: Roland Shackelford <roland at renewablenergy.com>
To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Power One Micro inverters
Message-ID:
	<CAEW4YCUaNiMCVhv=+5JO7i8cqk9J_xRiQCywGeJtcVu+pyyAxw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Aloha Wrenches,

Any experience and recommendations using Power Ones Aurora Micro?

I am designing a system using Panasonic 240W modules (72-Cell). This is a
high end home that needs all the power I can fit on its roof. There are
multiple roof pitches, orientations along with shading. I feel either micro
inverters or string inverters with maximizers are necessary. Although the
only space acceptable to mount string inverters would be the attic.
Therefore Power Ones micro inverter seems to be a good fit. Look forward to
your insight.


Mahalo,

Roland Shackelford
Vice President
NABCEP CERTIFIED INSTALLER
Renewable Energy Services (RES), Inc.
P.O. Box 278
Paauilo, HI 96776
Office:   808-775-0852
Fax:      808-775-9768
Mobile:  *808-938-9239 <http://808-938-9239>*
E-Mail:  roland at renewablenergy.com
www.renewablenergy.com
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 11:38:19 -0800
From: "William Miller" <william at millersolar.com>
To: "'RE-wrenches'" <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Power One Micro inverters
Message-ID: <00f901cef6a8$8d8deb70$a8a9c250$@millersolar.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Roland:

 

I haven't used the product but I priced it for one job.  I recommend you
verify your expense for AC interconnection cables.  You might have to buy an
entire spool.  This could bite you in the ass later.

 

Wm

 

 

From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Roland
Shackelford
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 11:05 AM
To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Power One Micro inverters

 

Aloha Wrenches,

 

Any experience and recommendations using Power Ones Aurora Micro? 

 

I am designing a system using Panasonic 240W modules (72-Cell). This is a
high end home that needs all the power I can fit on its roof. There are
multiple roof pitches, orientations along with shading. I feel either micro
inverters or string inverters with maximizers are necessary. Although the
only space acceptable to mount string inverters would be the attic.
Therefore Power Ones micro inverter seems to be a good fit. Look forward to
your insight.

 




Mahalo,

 

Roland Shackelford

Vice President

NABCEP CERTIFIED INSTALLER

Renewable Energy Services (RES), Inc. 

P.O. Box 278 

Paauilo, HI 96776

Office:   808-775-0852

Fax:      808-775-9768

Mobile:  808-938-9239

E-Mail:   <mailto:roland at renewablenergy.com> roland at renewablenergy.com 

 <http://www.renewablenergy.com/> www.renewablenergy.com

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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 15:04:56 -0500
From: Jason Szumlanski <jason at fafcosolar.com>
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Power One Micro inverters
Message-ID:
	<CAJJtG3p9d53kpE8zRQKtDhB5Y=5eALfdk4ASTsB9aPyZ-wJcLg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

My supplier cuts Aurora cable to length. I found the total cost to be just
about in line with Enphase when trunk line and other components are
considered, maybe a bit less per-watt depending on whether you are using the
300W or 250W.

I haven't used them yet, but I'm about to order for a 27 unit job with 300W
72-cell modules.

Jason Szumlanski

Fafco Solar



On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 2:38 PM, William Miller
<william at millersolar.com>wrote:

> Roland:
>
>
>
> I haven?t used the product but I priced it for one job.  I recommend 
> you verify your expense for AC interconnection cables.  You might have 
> to buy an entire spool.  This could bite you in the ass later.
>
>
>
> Wm
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
> re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Roland 
> Shackelford
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 11, 2013 11:05 AM
> *To:* re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Power One Micro inverters
>
>
>
> Aloha Wrenches,
>
>
>
> Any experience and recommendations using Power Ones Aurora Micro?
>
>
>
> I am designing a system using Panasonic 240W modules (72-Cell). This 
> is a high end home that needs all the power I can fit on its roof. 
> There are multiple roof pitches, orientations along with shading. I 
> feel either micro inverters or string inverters with maximizers are 
> necessary. Although the only space acceptable to mount string inverters
would be the attic.
> Therefore Power Ones micro inverter seems to be a good fit. Look 
> forward to your insight.
>
>
>
>
> Mahalo,
>
>
>
> Roland Shackelford
>
> Vice President
>
> NABCEP CERTIFIED INSTALLER
>
> Renewable Energy Services (RES), Inc.
>
> P.O. Box 278
>
> Paauilo, HI 96776
>
> Office:   808-775-0852
>
> Fax:      808-775-9768
>
> Mobile:  *808-938-9239 <http://808-938-9239>*
>
> E-Mail:  roland at renewablenergy.com
>
> www.renewablenergy.com
>
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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 12:12:18 -0800
From: August Goers <august at luminalt.com>
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Power One Micro inverters
Message-ID: <6ac6efe3e0d9bc21707ab6ff63c2ab37 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

Hi Roland,



We?ve installed around ten Power-One micro systems with mostly good results.
All in all, I?d say the installation is very similar to an Enphase
M215 based system if you are familiar with those. As William mentioned on a
separate post, the cabling is a bit expensive but otherwise similar to
Enphase?s trunk cabling. I?m not too thrilled with the termination cap you
need to use at the end of the trunk cable but it isn?t a big deal. You need
to run a GEC to these units unlike the new Enphase M250s. The monitoring
system is different from Enphase?s in a couple of regards. First,  the CDD
which is the central data logger connects to the micros wirelessly rather
than over powerline communication. So, you need to make sure that the CDD is
relatively close to the solar array or you might need to run the optional
antenna between the CDD and roof. Secondly, you need to plug a laptop
directly into the CDD while on site to commission the system. The system
won?t operate until you do so. The interface is a little clunky but we?ve
had no problem getting our systems online with a couple hours? work.



We have had one micro failure ? for some reason the micro inverter lost
communication with the CDD and so we had to replace it under warranty with
Power-One.



Good luck! It brings up a good debate about whether power optimizers or
micros are a better technology. I suppose the most important factors are
performance and reliability and only time will tell.



Best,



August



Luminalt Energy Corporation



*From:* re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Roland Shackelford
*Sent:* Wednesday, December 11, 2013 11:05 AM
*To:* re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Power One Micro inverters



Aloha Wrenches,



Any experience and recommendations using Power Ones Aurora Micro?



I am designing a system using Panasonic 240W modules (72-Cell). This is a
high end home that needs all the power I can fit on its roof. There are
multiple roof pitches, orientations along with shading. I feel either micro
inverters or string inverters with maximizers are necessary. Although the
only space acceptable to mount string inverters would be the attic.
Therefore Power Ones micro inverter seems to be a good fit. Look forward to
your insight.




Mahalo,



Roland Shackelford

Vice President

NABCEP CERTIFIED INSTALLER

Renewable Energy Services (RES), Inc.

P.O. Box 278

Paauilo, HI 96776

Office:   808-775-0852

Fax:      808-775-9768

Mobile:  *808-938-9239 <http://808-938-9239>*

E-Mail:  roland at renewablenergy.com

www.renewablenergy.com
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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 14:04:38 -0700
From: Ray Walters <ray at solarray.com>
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Chloride batteries
Message-ID: <52A8D366.8080003 at solarray.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"

Hi William;

My now apparently orphaned copy of Maui Solar Software has Pacific Chloride
Brand batteries listed in its data base that are industrial flooded lead
acid  batteries.  They have very similar performance parameters as other
fork lift batteries like the HUP. I don't have cycle life info though, but
most of those types were rated at 1500 cycles to 80% DOD.  You could
estimate the amp hours just by comparing physical dimensions to another
brand.  (I'm guessing from the Pic a 85-27 size?, about 1375 AH new?)

I've come across a few old 2 v sets like that (Exide, Bulldog, Crown, IBE,
C&D, ????) that all seem to go forever. I would do a 2 hr load test just to
see what the cells do under an extended, heavy load.  You might have some
weak cells, but usually I just keep them in service.  They do eventually go
bad, but it's like a golf cart battery deteriorating in slow motion:  you
have a little more time to shop for your next bank.

R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

On 12/10/2013 10:45 PM, William Miller wrote:
>    Friends:
>
>
> Below is a resend of a message from a month or two ago, sent by 
> popular demand.
>
> WM
>
>
>
> I visited an off-grid residence a few weeks ago to evaluate.  They 
> have a set of batteries that are steel jacketed 2 volt cells that look 
> a lot like IBE 2 volt batteries.  The batteries are 28 years old.  
> Although they look a little rough (dirty, some corrosion on the upper 
> rims of the cases), the specific gravity readings of these cells looks 
> like those of brand new batteries!  There are all in the 1.270 range 
> and plus or minus .01.  The batteries say "Chloride" on the outside with a
lightning bolt in the logo.
>
> I was amazed.  Could this be true with 28 year old batteries.  Does 
> anyone know anything about this type of battery?  Are these standard 
> lead acid batteries?
>
> We are removing a Heart Interface inverter and installing an Outback 
> (sideways).  The client has a Trace C40 charge controller connected to 
> a pretty modest solar array.  I could not recommend he spend the money 
> for a new FM60 considering how well the C40 is working.  I hope I am 
> giving good advice.
>
> Anyone have any history they could share on these batteries?
>
> Thanks,
>
> William Miller
>
> PS: I have included a photo.  I rarely do this so I am not sure it 
> will pass the server.
>
> W
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>
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>
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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 16:37:55 -0600
From: Roberto Kruse <roberto.kruse at sercsa.com>
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Power One Micro inverters
Message-ID:
	<CAEqObjj62N3iRjfnL5gLqzP8h9q1kfi6VRvaDBPRH2W3Raj+tg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

I haven't used them yet but I would suggest to consider also SolarEdge, as
they have a solution based on string inverters and optimizers.

Regards,
Roberto Kruse
Sistemas de Energ?a



2013/12/11 Roland Shackelford <roland at renewablenergy.com>

> Aloha Wrenches,
>
> Any experience and recommendations using Power Ones Aurora Micro?
>
> I am designing a system using Panasonic 240W modules (72-Cell). This 
> is a high end home that needs all the power I can fit on its roof. 
> There are multiple roof pitches, orientations along with shading. I 
> feel either micro inverters or string inverters with maximizers are 
> necessary. Although the only space acceptable to mount string inverters
would be the attic.
> Therefore Power Ones micro inverter seems to be a good fit. Look 
> forward to your insight.
>
>
> Mahalo,
>
> Roland Shackelford
> Vice President
> NABCEP CERTIFIED INSTALLER
>  Renewable Energy Services (RES), Inc.
> P.O. Box 278
> Paauilo, HI 96776
> Office:   808-775-0852
> Fax:      808-775-9768
> Mobile:  *808-938-9239 <http://808-938-9239>*
> E-Mail:  roland at renewablenergy.com
> www.renewablenergy.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
>


-- 



*Ing Roberto Kruse Font* | *SERC ? Costa Rica*| *roberto.kruse at sercsa.com
<roberto.kruse at sercsa.com>*
Tel (506)2273-4545 | Fax (506)2273-1010 | www.sercsa.com

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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 20:17:14 -1000
From: Roland Shackelford <roland at renewablenergy.com>
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Power One Micro inverters
Message-ID:
	<CAEW4YCVD=RhkJ+H69kdh7i3N0PQyk5QvhDejvgVgcE1md3U2eA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

Thanks August, appreciate the heads up on wiring cost and potential
communication issues. Sounds like Power One isn't quite as fine tuned as
Enphase yet. I'll compare cost with Solar Edge with maximizers.


Mahalo,

Roland Shackelford
Vice President
NABCEP CERTIFIED INSTALLER
Renewable Energy Services (RES), Inc.
P.O. Box 278
Paauilo, HI 96776
Office:   808-775-0852
Fax:      808-775-9768
Mobile:  *808-938-9239 <http://808-938-9239>*
E-Mail:  roland at renewablenergy.com
www.renewablenergy.com

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On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 10:12 AM, August Goers <august at luminalt.com> wrote:

> Hi Roland,
>
>
>
> We?ve installed around ten Power-One micro systems with mostly good 
> results. All in all, I?d say the installation is very similar to an 
> Enphase
> M215 based system if you are familiar with those. As William mentioned 
> on a separate post, the cabling is a bit expensive but otherwise 
> similar to Enphase?s trunk cabling. I?m not too thrilled with the 
> termination cap you need to use at the end of the trunk cable but it 
> isn?t a big deal. You need to run a GEC to these units unlike the new 
> Enphase M250s. The monitoring system is different from Enphase?s in a 
> couple of regards. First,  the CDD which is the central data logger 
> connects to the micros wirelessly rather than over powerline 
> communication. So, you need to make sure that the CDD is relatively 
> close to the solar array or you might need to run the optional antenna 
> between the CDD and roof. Secondly, you need to plug a laptop directly 
> into the CDD while on site to commission the system. The system won?t 
> operate until you do so. The interface is a little clunky but we?ve had no
problem getting our systems online with a couple hours? work.
>
>
>
> We have had one micro failure ? for some reason the micro inverter 
> lost communication with the CDD and so we had to replace it under 
> warranty with Power-One.
>
>
>
> Good luck! It brings up a good debate about whether power optimizers 
> or micros are a better technology. I suppose the most important 
> factors are performance and reliability and only time will tell.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
>
> August
>
>
>
> Luminalt Energy Corporation
>
>
>
> *From:* re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
> re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Roland 
> Shackelford
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 11, 2013 11:05 AM
> *To:* re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Power One Micro inverters
>
>
>
> Aloha Wrenches,
>
>
>
> Any experience and recommendations using Power Ones Aurora Micro?
>
>
>
> I am designing a system using Panasonic 240W modules (72-Cell). This 
> is a high end home that needs all the power I can fit on its roof. 
> There are multiple roof pitches, orientations along with shading. I 
> feel either micro inverters or string inverters with maximizers are 
> necessary. Although the only space acceptable to mount string inverters
would be the attic.
> Therefore Power Ones micro inverter seems to be a good fit. Look 
> forward to your insight.
>
>
>
>
> Mahalo,
>
>
>
> Roland Shackelford
>
> Vice President
>
> NABCEP CERTIFIED INSTALLER
>
> Renewable Energy Services (RES), Inc.
>
> P.O. Box 278
>
> Paauilo, HI 96776
>
> Office:   808-775-0852
>
> Fax:      808-775-9768
>
> Mobile:  *808-938-9239 <http://808-938-9239>*
>
> E-Mail:  roland at renewablenergy.com
>
> www.renewablenergy.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
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>
> Check out participant bios:
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>
>
>
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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 20:18:08 -1000
From: Roland Shackelford <roland at renewablenergy.com>
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Power One Micro inverters
Message-ID:
	<CAEW4YCXV2U3ciacESvy1iXxGeACKFke2hNS827yg4YBkF6GfqQ at mail.gmail.com>
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I will compare costs. Mahalo

Mahalo,

Roland Shackelford
Vice President
NABCEP CERTIFIED INSTALLER
Renewable Energy Services (RES), Inc.
P.O. Box 278
Paauilo, HI 96776
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On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 12:37 PM, Roberto Kruse
<roberto.kruse at sercsa.com>wrote:

> I haven't used them yet but I would suggest to consider also 
> SolarEdge, as they have a solution based on string inverters and
optimizers.
>
> Regards,
> Roberto Kruse
> Sistemas de Energ?a
>
>
>
> 2013/12/11 Roland Shackelford <roland at renewablenergy.com>
>
>> Aloha Wrenches,
>>
>> Any experience and recommendations using Power Ones Aurora Micro?
>>
>> I am designing a system using Panasonic 240W modules (72-Cell). This 
>> is a high end home that needs all the power I can fit on its roof. 
>> There are multiple roof pitches, orientations along with shading. I 
>> feel either micro inverters or string inverters with maximizers are 
>> necessary. Although the only space acceptable to mount string inverters
would be the attic.
>> Therefore Power Ones micro inverter seems to be a good fit. Look 
>> forward to your insight.
>>
>>
>> Mahalo,
>>
>> Roland Shackelford
>> Vice President
>> NABCEP CERTIFIED INSTALLER
>>  Renewable Energy Services (RES), Inc.
>> P.O. Box 278
>> Paauilo, HI 96776
>> Office:   808-775-0852
>> Fax:      808-775-9768
>> Mobile:  *808-938-9239 <http://808-938-9239>*
>> E-Mail:  roland at renewablenergy.com
>> www.renewablenergy.com
>>
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>
>
> --
>
>
>
> *Ing Roberto Kruse Font* | *SERC ? Costa Rica*| 
> *roberto.kruse at sercsa.com
> <roberto.kruse at sercsa.com>*
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