[RE-wrenches] GTBB resistance
Bruce Erickson
bruce at mendocinosolar.com
Mon Dec 9 11:14:40 PST 2013
Hi All,
As a followup to Phil's good news from October 18, has anyone had issues with utilities on approving GTBB?
We're in PG&E, and they seem to be stonewalling an NEM application we submitted 2 months ago. It's a normal Radian GTBB setup. They asked for "additional information" twice, which we gave them (they said the Radian wasn't on their approved equipt list, which it was, and asked for clarification on module model number). Weeks have gone by with no further communication.
Has anyone had PG&E approval for GTBB recently?
Any other developments with this issue?
Bruce Erickson
Mendocino Solar Service
PO Box 1252
Mendocino, CA 95460
707-937-1701
707-937-1741 fax
bruce at mendocinosolar.com
On Oct 18, 2013, at 8:49 AM, Phil Undercuffler wrote:
> Great news, everyone -- the assigned commissioner ruling (ACR) for battery based NEM eligibility has been released last night, and it looks very positive. The ACR would "give storage devices meeting the Guidebook requirements the same benefits available to renewable generating facilities under NEM tariffs" for two years, and systems would be exempt from standby charges, interconnection application and review fees or upgrade charges, similar to any other grid-tie PV system. This sends a very clear message to the utilities that they need to stop obstructing RE and grid tie with battery backup using energy storage.
>
> Ruling filed by CMMR/PEEVEY/CPUC on 10/17/2013 Conf# 68783 http://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/PublishedDocs/Efile/G000/M078/K591/78591800.PDF
>
> Per the ACR, "these exemptions would apply to any storage device connected behind the same billing meter as the NEM generating system because this configuration meets the conditions of the “directly connected energy storage” category as described in the Guidebook." In order to preserve NEM integrity (fancy words for making sure folks aren't gaming the system) the ruling does call out a requirement for net generation output metering (NGOM), but is open to discussion for an exception for those customers who are not on time-of-use rates. If you are on TOU rates there is a dual AC meter solution which can capture the full output of the PV separate from any input to protected loads and backup charging. Washington State utilities use this approach for our FIT with battery based systems.
>
> If you or your customers have been impacted by the investor-owned utility's stall tactics, I would recommend that you contact the utility and advise them that you are aware of this ruling, and that in light of it you want your application reviewed and approved immediately.
>
> This has been a great week for breaking through stupid logjams. Power to the people!
>
>
>
> Philip Undercuffler
> Director, Product Management and Strategy
> OutBack Power Technologies
> 17825 59th Ave NE, Suite B, Arlington, WA 98223
> 360.618.4306 office | 425.319.2821 mobile
> www.outbackpower.com
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 1:35 PM, <Eric.Bentsen at schneider-electric.com> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
> Following this post with much interest, as this affects everyone that wants to reduce reliance on a utility grid
> that is already overburdened, If TOU metering was done away with, it would eliminate "buy low and sell high",
> which is a "wash" when you consider battery replacement cost (due to excessive cycling).
> GTBB is an excellent way for individuals to "do their part" in conserving energy. The fact that utility companies
> are putting up such a battle is indicative of one thing.....money (is there any other motive?). Everyone concerned
> should contact their lawmakers in Congress to pass a federal law so these utility companies will stop obstructing
> clean energy.
> Rgds,
> _____________________________________________________________________________________
>
> Eric Bentsen | Schneider Electric | Solar Business | UNITED STATES | Technical Support Representative
> Phone: +(650) 351-8237 ext. 001# |
> Email: eric.bentsen at schneider-electric.com | Site: www.schneider-electric.com/solar | Address: 250 South Vasco Rd., Livermore, CA 94551
>
>
> *** Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail
>
>
>
> From: Dan Fink <danbob88 at gmail.com>
> To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Date: 10/10/2013 11:22 AM
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] GTBB resistance
> Sent by: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
>
>
>
> Ray;
>
> We always run a variety of made-up financial scenarios in our "Intro to Off-Grid" classes.....we usually end up around 35 to 70 cents per kWh.
>
> Or another way to put it....a monthly 'battery bill' of $25 to $120 depending on battery bank size, and how many years they pamper it to last....or torture it to premature death.
>
> The GTBB backlash from the utilities is just more smoke and mirrors.....I'll try to get something up on HuffPost before I leave for Canada next week.....
>
> Dan Fink,
> Executive Director;
> Otherpower
> Buckville Energy Consulting
> Buckville Publications LLC
> NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers
> 970.672.4342
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 11:43 AM, Ray Walters <ray at solarray.com> wrote:
> Just to add to Phil's comments: I've been calculating total life cost of battery storage (KWH x cycle life x %DOD) and the costs are 15 to 35 cents/ KWH to cycle a battery. Its even higher for sealed batteries and Li+. It would have to be an amazing cost difference in the TOU rates to beat the battery cost plus all the losses of AC charging/ discharging a battery.
> I agree with Phil, as I've seen utilities obstruct solar since the 1980s. Unfortunately their attitude has still not changed.
> Its pretty dumb too; battery storage could help improve the reliability of the grid.
> You can't retire yet folks, we have another battle to fight.
>
> R.Ray Walters
> CTO, Solarray, Inc
> Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Solar Design Engineer
> 303 505-8760
>
>
> On 10/10/2013 12:13 AM, Phil Undercuffler wrote:
> However, arbitrage (buying low and selling high) is one of the lousiest economic models for energy storage. Yes, perhaps you can make a buck or two if the delta is big enough. However, that's like driving forty miles in your 4x4 to use a dollar coupon instead of shopping at the grocery store down the block. There are just better ways to make a buck.
>
> At the end of the day, what should matter in NEM is what generated the energy that is exported. The customer should be able to maintain their battery by charging from grid, solar, or any combination. The batteries are not a balloon -- energy used to charge them doesn't come rushing back out. Batteries are like a bucket -- if the inverter can only sell what flows over the top, then it takes solar input to begin flowing.
>
> Ultimately, it's going to take a chorus of voices to get the CPUC to tell the utilities to shape up and stop obstructing these systems. If people stay silent, the utilities get their way. It's your industry, it's your business. It's your choice.
>
> Phil Undercuffler
> OutBack Power
> 425-319-2821
>
>
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