[RE-wrenches] GTBB resistance

Thu Oct 10 13:35:36 PDT 2013

Hi All,
Following this post with much interest, as this affects everyone that 
wants to reduce reliance on a utility grid 
 that is already overburdened, If TOU metering was done away with, it 
would eliminate "buy low and sell high", 
which is a "wash" when you consider battery replacement cost (due to 
excessive cycling).
GTBB is an excellent way for individuals to "do their part" in conserving 
energy. The fact that utility companies 
are putting up such a battle is indicative of one thing.....money (is 
there any other motive?).  Everyone concerned 
should contact their lawmakers in Congress to pass a federal law so these 
utility companies will stop obstructing 
clean energy.
Rgds,
_____________________________________________________________________________________ 

Eric Bentsen  |   Schneider Electric   |  Solar Business  |   UNITED 
STATES  |   Technical Support Representative 
Phone: +(650) 351-8237 ext. 001#  |   
Email: eric.bentsen at schneider-electric.com  |   Site: 
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From:
Dan Fink <danbob88 at gmail.com>
To:
RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Date:
10/10/2013 11:22 AM
Subject:
Re: [RE-wrenches] GTBB resistance
Sent by:
re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org

Ray;

We always run a variety of made-up financial scenarios in our "Intro to 
Off-Grid" classes.....we usually end up around 35 to 70 cents per kWh. 

Or another way to put it....a monthly 'battery bill' of $25 to $120 
depending on battery bank size, and how many years they pamper it to 
last....or torture it to premature death.

The GTBB backlash from the utilities is just more smoke and 
mirrors.....I'll try to get something up on HuffPost before I leave for 
Canada next week.....

Dan Fink,
Executive Director;
Otherpower
Buckville Energy Consulting
Buckville Publications LLC
NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers
970.672.4342

On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 11:43 AM, Ray Walters <ray at solarray.com> wrote:
Just to add to Phil's comments:  I've been calculating total life cost of 
battery storage  (KWH x cycle life x %DOD)  and the costs are 15 to 35 
cents/ KWH to cycle a battery.  Its even higher for sealed batteries and 
Li+.  It would have to be an amazing cost difference in the TOU rates to 
beat the battery cost plus all the losses of AC charging/ discharging a 
battery.
I agree with Phil, as I've seen utilities obstruct solar since the 1980s. 
 Unfortunately their attitude has still not changed.
Its pretty dumb too; battery storage could help improve the reliability of 
the grid.
You can't retire yet folks,  we have another battle to fight.

R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

On 10/10/2013 12:13 AM, Phil Undercuffler wrote:
 However, arbitrage (buying low and selling high) is one of the lousiest 
economic models for energy storage. Yes, perhaps you can make a buck or 
two if the delta is big enough. However, that's like driving forty miles 
in your 4x4 to use a dollar coupon instead of shopping at the grocery 
store down the block. There are just better ways to make a buck.

At the end of the day, what should matter in NEM is what generated the 
energy that is exported. The customer should be able to maintain their 
battery by charging from grid, solar, or any combination. The batteries 
are not a balloon -- energy used to charge them doesn't come rushing back 
out. Batteries are like a bucket -- if the inverter can only sell what 
flows over the top, then it takes solar input to begin flowing.

Ultimately, it's going to take a chorus of voices to get the CPUC to tell 
the utilities to shape up and stop obstructing these systems.  If people 
stay silent, the utilities get their way. It's your industry, it's your 
business.  It's your choice.

Phil Undercuffler
OutBack Power
425-319-2821

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