[RE-wrenches] generator suggestions

Wed Jan 30 14:02:10 PST 2013

   We recommend propane to all our clients in New England simply because
in the winter a propane gennie starts without the need for a block
heater or special diesel storage. Reliability is preferred over price
when it comes to needing charging after a week of cloudy, snowy
weather. Many of my clients also point out that no matter how careful
they are, the storage area for the gennie eventually smells like
diesel.
   In the Caribbean, where the use of a generator is much less than here
in Maine, we recommend propane because it is already available in the
home. Logistics on a lot of the small family islands where we do off
grid work make running for diesel just another thing to do.
   From an environmental standpoint I would always recommend propane over
diesel because of spillage and diesel fumes. I believe propane is much
cleaner burning, although likely the CO2 is probably similar.
    Just my .2

Daryl


> Hi guys
> Right on all accounts but I continue to hear that propane/nat gas is
> further derated than the liquid fuels.
> Or is this just bad info?
>
> Thx
>
> Jay
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 30, 2013, at 12:44 PM, "Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power
> Systems" <larry at starlightsolar.com> wrote:
>
>> Jay,
>>
>> In addition to what Dan has said, 1 gallon of propane has about 35% less
>> BTU's compared to 1 gallon of gasoline. So the propane derating must be
>> added to the altitude derate to determine generator output.
>>
>>
>> Larry Crutcher
>> Starlight Solar Power Systems
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 30, 2013, at 1:32 PM, Dan Fink wrote:
>>
>> Jay;
>> The "standard" seems to be 2-3% derate for every 1000 feet above sea
>> level for gasoline, diesel or LP gas generators, and supposedly more
>> like 5% for natural gas. (in general we don't work in areas that have
>> natural gas service, we only do off-grid). So the propane de-rate for
>> altitude is no worse than the diesel or gasoline de-rate, it's just
>> added on top of it. In practice, we are not seeing that big a hit, but
>> it is hard to really judge. Also, air-cooled generators don't cool as
>> well at high altitudes and tend to run hot.
>>
>> A fairly common troubleshooting call we've seen in the past is clients
>> who have purchased cheap portable generators from Home Depot, Harbor
>> Freight etc. and then find that they can't tune them for anything above
>> 6000 feet -- the carb adjustment screws don't go that far, and the fine
>> print in the warranty actually says 6000 ft max. Ouch! They run so
>> poorly that very few modern inverter/chargers will even look at their
>> input. I've been a local firefighter for 14 years now, even worse
>> problem with chainsaws (2-stroke). We've learned how to bust out the
>> plastic "EPA stops" on the carb adjust screws, with the of course
>> unofficial instructions to throw the saw into the fire if the EPA shows
>> up......
>>
>> Never had the slightest high-altitude issues with the Honda x000i series
>> running OK, and I have no idea why. The de-rate factor is certainly
>> still there, but no issues idling or running, no matter what the draw.
>> My Honda 3000i issues are from a different cause I think; there is an
>> extensive thread on that in the archives here that I started in July
>> 2011 I think.
>>
>> DAN FINK
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Jay Peltz <jay at asis.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Dan
>>>
>>> So true. But never had it explained to me why propane is different than
>>> gasoline or diesel at altitude.
>>>
>>> Thx
>>>
>>> Jay
>>> Peltz power
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jan 30, 2013, at 11:42 AM, Dan Fink <danbob88 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> And because of our Colorado location here, we are always dealing with
>>>> altitude de-rate factors. We are usually installing at 7000 - 10000
>>>> feet elevation, which is a big hit. Propane de-rates gennys even
>>>> further.
>>>> --
>>>> Dan Fink,
>>>> Executive Director;
>>>> Otherpower
>>>> Buckville Energy Consulting
>>>> Buckville Publications LLC
>>>> NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers
>>>> 970.672.4342 (voicemail)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 12:38 PM, Jay Peltz <jay at asis.com> wrote:
>>>>> > Hi all
>>>>>
>>>>> I've found through hard experience that all generators except diesels
>>>>> seem to be smaller than name plate rating.
>>>>>
>>>>> And while the charging maybe reduced if I am conservative in telling
>>>>> the inverter how large the genny is I rarely get the genny to trip
>>>>> its breaker.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Jay
>>>>>
>>>>> Peltz power
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Dan Fink,
>> Executive Director;
>> Otherpower
>> Buckville Energy Consulting
>> Buckville Publications LLC
>> NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers
>> 970.672.4342 (voicemail)
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>>
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