[RE-wrenches] High L16 voltage situation

Fri Jul 20 12:58:21 PDT 2012


Mystery solved. Morningstar vindicated. 
I had one of the guys go down on this so this is as I understand it. One of the 2 solar panels was mis wired into the 12VDC lighting circuit. This panel was finding its way straight to the batteries through the load side of the charge controller. Apparently the Morningstar LVD clips on the high side as well as the low side of voltage. This simulated the current drop below my meters ability to read it yet still ran the voltage up to the 15.6VDC reading. I got tunnel vision to the controller thinking it was clipping current and functioning but at a wrong voltage. The AGM jumper also seems to control the LVD setpoints on the load portion of the controller which further put my focus on the controller as the culprit.
Mick got it right except the high voltage PWM cutout on the LVD took the runaway current out of the equation. I was seeing the problem but it was hidden in plain sight.
I hated to post that this thing kicked my butt. Morningstar deserved the clean bill of health. There is little of my face not covered by egg. That is only because I did not hook the thing up wrong to begin with. 
Thanks to all who offered help on this one.
Nathan Jones
Power Source Solar Inc.
417-827-0738
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On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 4:58 PM CDT John DeBoever wrote:

>Nathan,
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>Interesting controller situation...
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>I recommend you contact Morningstar tech support center , (215) 321-4457 for support. Ask for Adams.
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>Hope they will clear this out.
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>John
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>John F. DeBoever
>Global Technical & Projects Director - Renewable Energy
>Trojan Battery Company
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>12380 Clark Street
>Santa Fe Springs, CA 90670
>Tel: +1-562-236-3000 Ext. 3139
>Cell: +1-845-514-7600 - NY office time zone: USA EST (GMT-5)
>Skype: john.f.deboever
>Fax: +1-562-236-3239
>jdeboever at trojanbattery.com<mailto:jdeboever at trojanbattery.com>
>www.trojanbattery.com<http://www.trojanbattery.com/>
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>-----Original Message-----
>From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Nathan Jones
>Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 5:45 PM
>To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] High L16 voltage situation
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>John
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>Two 12 volt nominal panels wired in parallel.
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>Battery configuration is series/parallel at 12 volts nominal Controller (all of them) have been 12 volt nominal PWM VPM is 17.7 VDC IPM is 7.91 Open circuit voltage was down about 1 volt due to heat.
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>I have not pulled the batteries down much below surface charge so max amperage I have observed going back into the batteries has been 5 amps but it tapers off within about 6 minutes as the controller regulates back to float. Absorb and float are at 15.6VDC in all cases with all the controller combinations unless I add the AGM jumper to the controller which does lower absorb and float voltage to Morningstars published settings with the one controller I attempted it with.
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>Nathan Jones
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>On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 3:41 PM CDT John DeBoever wrote:
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>>Nathan,
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>>Maybe the devil is in the details... Maybe the controller is confused and "sees" a 24V system... Just thinking...
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>>Kindly clarify few points:
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>>o   At which voltage the PV array is configured?  2x PV modules in parallel 12V or  2x PV modules in series?
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>>o   Does the SunSaver Morningstar controller at the site is a 12V or a 24V version?
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>>o   What is the Vmp of the PV module?
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>>John
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>>John F. DeBoever
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>>Global Technical & Projects Director - Renewable Energy Trojan Battery
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>>Company
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>>12380 Clark Street
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>>Santa Fe Springs, CA 90670
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>>Tel: +1-562-236-3000 Ext. 3139
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>>Cell: +1-845-514-7600 - NY office time zone: USA EST (GMT-5)
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>>Skype: john.f.deboever
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>>Fax: +1-562-236-3239
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>>jdeboever at trojanbattery.com<mailto:jdeboever at trojanbattery.com<mailto:jdeboever at trojanbattery.com%3cmailto:jdeboever at trojanbattery.com>
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>>www.trojanbattery.com<http://www.trojanbattery.com/<http://www.trojanbattery.com%3chttp:/www.trojanbattery.com/>
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>>-----Original Message-----
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>>From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
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>>[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Nathan
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>>Jones
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>>Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 4:36 PM
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>>To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
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>>Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] High L16 voltage situation
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>>Mick,
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>>Pesky is a nicer term than I had been using. I clamped the charge circuit and watched the amperage come in on final phase of absorb then drop to zero. (Since the voltage stayed at the same 15.6VDC when the amperage dropped off there was some current but my meter could not read it. That is the pesky part. Everything seems to be behaving as it should be. I will try the splitting of the parallel battery strings and check each string. And as Jay suggested, take a different brand of controller with me next time. What is frustrating is this should be as simple as things can get and yet it is so perplexing. Keeps me humble.
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>>Thanks,
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>>Nathan Jones
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>>------------------------------
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>>On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 11:19 AM CDT Mick Abraham wrote:
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>>Hi, Nathan~
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>>Your pesky overcharge situation sounds like a real pain given the long
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>>commute. 15.6 volts on a "12 volt" battery implies zero restriction of
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>>the incoming energy, so this looks like a controller problem...or
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>>maybe
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>>it's a wiring problem that prevents proper controller operation. Make
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>>sure there's a -12 in the model number for your Morningstar Sunsaver
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>>controls, as those are voltage specific.
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>>Eliminate as many variables as possible, Nathan: unhook two of the 6v
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>>L-16's, leaving only two in a 12 volt string. Connect only one PV
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>>module through the 12v controller and see if the voltage will regulate properly.
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>>If you have a clamp style DC ammeter, clip around one lead in the
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>>charge circuit & read the amps with good sun. If the battery voltage
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>>continues high while you see ~ 7-8 amps PV charge...the controller is
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>>failing to do its job.
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>>Jolliness,
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>>Mick Abraham, Proprietor
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>>www.abrahamsolar.com<http://www.abrahamsolar.com<http://www.abrahamsolar.com%3chttp:/www.abrahamsolar.com>
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>>Voice: 970-731-4675
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