[RE-wrenches] L feet no flashing in shingle roof

Wed Jul 4 08:51:04 PDT 2012

David

I agree with you David that flashed roof attachment are the preferred
attachment method and definitly the best practice method.  As an industry
we should be promoting that.  Todd's point that they can work fine is also
valid, although I would still recommend flashing if a decent product is
available.

That being said , there are still situations where a decent flashing system
is either not available or not practical, such as with corrugated metal
roofing, which is still pretty common especially for shops and farm
outbuildings.  In these situation the L-feet can be used and if attention
to detail during the install, such as I described in my earlier thread, are
taken can be and have been quite effective.

Also attention to detail still needs to be be taken when using flashing,
and even a flashed system will leak if improperly executed!   Not all
flashing products are created equal either!   I am afraid with the dynamic
growth of the industry and installers jumping in the game that the chances
of a leaking roof causing bad publicity are very likely regardless of how
the better experienced installers perform.  It is important to distinguish
ourselves from that fray and actively promote best practices and ultimately
customer satisfaction.  All of the construction industries have this
problem with fly by nighter's and people unknowingly falling for
the"cheapest" bid...the roofing industry included!   We have to spend more
time as an industry promoting quality over the race to the bottom to be the
lowest bidder!

Bill

On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 8:07 AM, David Brearley <
david.brearley at solarprofessional.com> wrote:

>  Todd,
>
> The issue isn't whether your approach works, but whether it is defensible
> in the event that something leaks. Most solar contractors receive public
> funds (rebate monies, ARRA program distributions, etc.). Some of those
> companies are installing systems in a manner that is not building code
> compliant. It just takes a high profile leaky roof at a VA hospital or a
> public housing project where a solar system was installed in a manner that
> does not meet the building code to lose years of goodwill and support for
> the industry. Modules prices have fallen quite a bit, but we all loose if
> State and Federal or public (opinion) support for the industry goes away.
>
> Obviously, that's the worst case scenario: That somehow the industry gets
> painted as being made up of a bunch of irresponsible, fly-by-night, subsidy
> chasers. Probably nothing to worry about, though. I'm pretty sure there's
> no precedence for that sort of thing actually happening. Right?
>
> What's more likely is that AHJs will get hip to the fact that they need to
> inspect the building code compliance of roof attachments. When they do,
> which side of the curve will your company be on? (Since your mind seems to
> be made up, Todd, that question is addressed to List at large.)
>
> Happy Independence Day,
>
> David Brearley, Senior Technical Editor
> SolarPro magazine
> NABCEP Certified PV Installer ™
> david.brearley at solarprofessional.com
> Direct: 541.261.6545
>
>
> On Jul 3, 2012, at 10:37 PM, toddcory at finestplanet.com wrote:
>
> i wasn't going to enter into this discussion, but this posting prompted
> me.
>
> my most recent job was done with the assistance of the customer. he and i
> have a long working history, my being his employee some 25 years ago
> installing shw systems in the area, and now he hiring me to do his personal
> home's pv system.
>
>
> he insisted on straight L foot mounting without flashings... and i have
> to agree. in the 25 to 30 years since we did those shw systems, not a
> single one has leaked. plus, the installation was at the roof ridgeline, so
> pv quick mounts wouldn't have worked anyway. we put 2 X 8 blocking in the
> attic between the trusses to acomodate the mounting bolts and used a nice
> fattie gob of black silicone on each foot, which gooshed out when
> tightened. the mount will easily outlast the roof... leak free.
>
>
> honestly, i don't care what the ubc/ibs says. if done properly, these
> kinds of mounts are bombproof. years of experience backs this up. also, i
> have seen plenty of 'code compliant' oatey no-caulk sewer vent flashings
> with rotten rubber leaking into homes to know flashed penetrations are no
> panacea either.
>
>
> todd
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, July 3, 2012 2:53pm, "David Brearley" <
> david.brearley at solarprofessional.com> said:
>
>  +1 on the use of structural screws. We ran an article about lag screws a
> couple years ago:
>
> http://solarprofessional.com/article/?file=SP3_4_pg70_Shelly
>
> One of the things that surprised me when I read this manuscript is how
> variable lag screws are in terms of construction and quality. Besides the
> convenience of being able to drive a structural screw without a pilot hole,
> the engineering specs are likely better documented and the manufacturing
> tolerances are probably tighter as well.
>
> FWIW: I think that using unflashed attachments in these litigious times is
> unwise. It's not consistent with best practices in the construction
> industry. It does not meet building codes. It violates the roof
> warranty. It makes your competition look good.
>
>  We ran our first article on this topic 4 years ago, in our inaugural
> issue of SolarPro magazine:
>
> http://solarprofessional.com/article/?file=SP1_1_pg72_Fain
>
>  The industry has come a long way since then, both in terms of awareness
> and in terms of off-the-shelf flashed attachment options. There are so many
> quality flashed attachment solutions to chose from now that I'm not sure
> why anyone would knowingly expose themselves to a possible construction
> negligence claim.
>
> Drive straight,
>
> David Brearley, Senior Technical Editor
> SolarPro magazine
> NABCEP Certified PV Installer ™
> david.brearley at solarprofessional.com
> Direct: 541.261.6545
>
> On Jul 3, 2012, at 4:11 PM, Garrison Riegel wrote:
>
>   The EcoFasten GF1 flashing is easy to install on a retrofit and will
> not necessarily add any height to the rail.  If you do need to trim the
> flashings installed around the skylight, then I would recommend adding
> sealant to these penetrations.  We ditch the included lag and use a 5/16”
> GRK RSS (self tapping structural screw).  The combination works great and
> does not require a pilot hole.
>
>
>  RSS:
> http://www.grkfasteners.com/en/RSS_1_2_information.htm
>
>
>  GF1
> http://ecofastensolar.com/pdf/GF1%20Cutsheets.pdf
>
>
>  Best,
>
>
>  Garrison Riegel
> Project Manager
>
>
>  *Solar Service Inc*
> [p] 847-677-0950
> [f] 847-647-9360
> www.solarserviceinc.com
>
>
>  NABCEP Certified Solar PV and Thermal Installer™
>
>
>
>
>  “There is no room for flashings. The L feet will go very close to the
> skylights and the flashing would hit the edge of them. Plus there is an
> existing array that was done by another installer that is done with L feet
> only. The new array would be higher.”
>
>
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-- 
Bill Hoffer PE
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
Sunergy Engineering Services PLLC
2504 Columbia Ave NW
East Wenatchee WA 98802-3941
SunEngSer at gmail.com Cell:(509)679-6165
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