[RE-wrenches] cycling flooded batteries is not necessary

[Darryl Thayer]

Yes it is the lead that dissolves in water.  If the volts per cell is less than 1.75 this process begins.  the lead dissolved will form dendrites upon charging and these whiskers of lead can short out the plates.  Most battery manufactures recommend the volts per cell stay above 1.85 volts per cell.  (resting) to prevent the lead from dissolving  



________________________________
 From: Howie Michaelson <howie at suncatchervt.com>
To: Darryl Thayer <daryl_solar at yahoo.com>; RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> 
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 8:40 PM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] cycling flooded batteries is not necessary
 
I had always been under the impression that too strong and acid is what
softens and weakens the lead grid, dissolving the lead out of the plate. 
Is it really true that water is the enemy of the plates?

And if equalizing on occasion is all that is needed to break up the
stratification of the electrolyte in a float service, what would the
suggested frequency of equalizing be if the batteries do not need
equalizing for other reasons?

Thanks,
Howie
-- 
Howie Michaelson
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™

Catamount Solar, LLC
Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service
VT Solar Electric & Hot Water Incentive Partner
http://www.CatamountSolar.com
802-272-0004


On Sun, February 19, 2012 10:53 pm, Darryl Thayer wrote:
> There is to much water under the bridge.  It can't be nothing.   The
> battery manufacture make the battery and then forms the plates, he ships
> the battery expecting and knowing that the user will cycle the battery. 
> In the cycling process there are "chanels formed in the plate for acid to
> enter, and consequently the plate becomes a better plate.  the cycling
> forces avenues to form, and as everyone knows the battery capacity
> increases.  this increase is easy to see in the performance.  Then the
> battery begins to very slowly lose capacity as the plates detererate.over
> several thousand cycles.  
>  
> The enlightenment here is the small minimum number of cycles it takes to
> maintain a battery.  A flooded Lead antimomy battery has a self discharge
> rate, during that discharge H2SO4 becomes H2O the H2O rises to the top,
> leaving acid at the bottom.  now you have stratification, in the presence
> of H2O  the lead Oxide softens and will actually desolve.  the water and
> acid need to be mixed, so a bubling action is rfquired, this is 
> controlled over charge.  So as long as the battery is equalized that is
> the only cycleing it needs per John  and Jammie.
>  
> Darryl 
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: Maverick Brown [Maverick Solar] <maverick at mavericksolar.com>
> To: 'RE-wrenches' <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 8:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] cycling flooded batteries is not necessary
>
>
>
> Other than some
> statements I have heard about battery reaching full capacity after X
> cycles...
> Maybe that is a wives-tale as well.
>  
> Otherwise, maybe I was not clear.
> By cycling, I mean daily (or periodic) Absorbas I mentioned in the email,
> not
> loading/draining the battery (other than the clear statement to test to
> see if
> the system actually works as a backup systemevery once in a while).No real
> deep
> draining necessary. For instance, after some months without issue, one
> customer
> called in a panic because the electricity did go off one night and they
> had no
> backup. Turns out, somehow they turned off the "Inverter" function. Easy
> solution, press a few buttons, etc. to turn on the
> inverter.
>  
> Maybe
> all I need is a Time function attached to Selling, like the Charge
> function has
> on some brands. Who knows.
>  
> It is
> clear that FLAs have a self discharge and some percent of capacity is
> obtained
> during Absorb, so a long term Float only might reduce some of the
> batteries
> capacity.
>  
> Anyway, Outback does have the "Absorb before Sell" function
> when using the FN-DC in the system. Not sure about the newer version of
> hardware. The "Parameters Met" settings gave me fits until I figured it
> out.
> Plus, the FN-DC is not free.
>  
> The XW
> has a function for Absorb before/during sell. I think it requires a XW CC.
> We
> use every brand of CC appropriate for the site. Also, the setup
> instructions
> are weird in my mind since it requires the Grid Support Voltage to
> programmed to very high value. I wish they would just have added the
> function
> "Enhanced Interactive Mode = Enable", etc.
>  
> Ok,
> enough rambling...
>  
> Maverick
>  
>  
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of
> toddcory at finestplanet.com
> Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 3:37
> PM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] cycling flooded
> batteries is not necessary
>
>  to
> reiterate wrenches:
>  
> two
> battery manufacturers (surrette & trojan) have both stated there is NO
> NEED
> to cycle floating, flooded lead-antimony batteries. i have heard this
> urban
> legend for some time and it is nice to finally have it put to rest as an
> incorrect myth.
>  
> todd
>  
>  
>  
>  
> On
> Saturday, February 18, 2012 7:04am, "Doug Wells"
> <dwells at thesolarspecialists.com> said:
>
>
>>
> Maverick,
>>
>> "But you would think after 20 years, inverter
> manufacturers would make some
>> software similar to generator cycling to
> handle this cycling issue. "
>>
>> I believe that the XW Inverters
> have this ability in sell mode. There is
>> traditional sell voltage. And
> then there is a setting that puts the batteries
>> through a traditional
> bulk cycle while still "selling" back any excess energy.
>> The next
> question would be, is this better for battery longevity. Seems like a
>>
> hybrid of the two would be ideal.
>>
>> Doug Wells
>> The Solar
> Specialists
>> Morrisville, VT 05661
>> (p) 802-223-7014
>> (c)
> 802-498-5856
>> www.thesolarspecialists.com
>>
>>
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