[RE-wrenches] Interstate L-16 vs Trojan L-16REB

Mon Feb 20 10:31:54 PST 2012

Hello John,

Yes, it did thanks for your response. 

Do you suggest owners check the S.G. of the battery bank towards the end of an absorption charge in a way similar to checking the end of an EQ cycle for lack of S.G. rise over a certain amount of time?  If so, what are your parameters for S.G. readings and duration at that reading for a new battery bank,  and also any changes to those parameters for a battery bank towards the end of its useful life?

Jason Lerner
Waldron Power and Light Co.

On Feb 17, 2012, at 8:49 AM, John DeBoever wrote:

> Wrenches,
> Jason,
>  
> I understand.
> Trojan Signature L16P and L16H and Trojan Signature T-105  have the same cycling performances, i.e. 1,200 cycles @ 50% DOD. 
> See here: http://www.trojanbatteryre.com/PDF/datasheets/T105_TrojanRE_Data_Sheets.pdf
>  
> Trojan Premium L16RE-A, L16RE-B, L16RE-2V and Trojan Premium T-105RE have the same superior cycling performances, i.e. 1,600 cycles @ 50% DOD.
> See here: http://www.trojanbatteryre.com/PDF/datasheets/T105_TrojanRE_Data_Sheets.pdf
>  
> If everything else is equal in the design sizing, and if we compare same category ( Trojan Premium or Trojan Signature), one can look for maintenance requirements related to the form factor difference between a T-105’s and L16’s. The interval between equalization will be most likely shorter for a L16’s and maybe field experience is showing that end users systems do not adjust the adequate settings for the frequency between equalizations for their application specifics? Also, while we just agreed that everything else is equal in the design sizing, it remains that the loads are larger when featuring L16’s.  Maybe the dynamics of the load is less easy to predict (than we wish) in a large loads applications, and, one may find end users facing a battery bank deeper DOD than projected?  More reasons to monitor S.G. for 2-3 months of use and adjust the period for equalization and watering.  As for the battery technology, a lead-acid monoblock battery that is built by a good company that has good plate weight control and each cells are well balanced through quality control, there should be no big differences within one category.
>  
> I hope this shed some light on your valid question.
>  
> John
>  
>  
> From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jason Lerner
> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 9:20 PM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Interstate L-16 vs Trojan L-16REB
>  
> Hello John,
>  
> Thanks for your response.  Often L16's need to be used over T-105's at a certain price point to get more amp hour capacity with less parallel strings.  That said, we have found that a properly sized battery bank with T-105's will typically last longer than a properly sized battery bank of L16's.  
>  
> Could you comment on the build differences between the L16 and T-105 that might illustrate why this is?
>  
> Jason Lerner
> Waldron Power and Light Co.
>  
>  
> On Feb 16, 2012, at 11:48 AM, John DeBoever wrote:
> 
> 
> Jason,
>  
> Deep-Cycle require thick plate. Higher current require plate surface. In a same format case, for the same weight,  you can either have few thick plates or a higher number of thinner plates. Trojan true deep cycle flooded batteries feature thicker plates and a resulting lower capacity than an standard non-deep cycling battery in the same battery case form factor and total lead weight . A deep cycle “L16” offers a larger case, thus a larger surface per plate, thus a larger Ah capacity. Attention is paid to have good flow of the electrolyte and a decent mud well in the L16 case. Adequate equalization charge is meant to equalize the cells and reduce stratification of the acid in the electrolyte.
>  
> Of the other factors that influence deep cycle performances of Trojan antimony flooded lead acid battery:
> ü  A Trojan exclusive paste (active material) formulation,  made up of Alpha and Beta lead crystals. Alpha crystals provide mechanical strength to the paste and is the better electrical conductor of electrons. Beta crystals provides better discharge capacity and are relatively easier to form than Alpha crystals.
> ü  The addition of a T2 metal agent helps achieve an optimal balance between Alpha and Beta lead crystals which results in a more uniform structure and enhanced electrical conductivity. The refined structure allows a porosity development in the plate that achieves a higher sustained discharge capacity with cycling and therefore a higher total accumulated amp-hours during the life of the Trojan battery.
> ü  Advanced design, multi-rib, rubber-based separator material formulation inhibits antimony transfer between positive grids to the negative plates, as well help with electrolyte flow.
>  
> John
>  
> John F. DeBoever
> Global Technical Director – Renewable Energy
> Trojan Battery Company
>  
> 12380 Clark Street
> Santa Fe Springs, CA 90670
> Tel: +1-562-236-3000 Ext. 3139
> Cell: +1-845-514-7600 – NY office time zone: USA EST (GMT-5)
> Skype: john.f.deboever
> Fax: +1-562-236-3239
> jdeboever at trojanbattery.com
> www.trojanbattery.com
>  
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jason Lerner
> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 1:56 PM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Interstate L-16 vs Trojan L-16REB
>  
> Hello Ray and all,
>  
> Why is it that golf cart batteries tend to last longer than L-16's in the same application,  small off grid systems?  Is the plate thickness or electrolyte vs plate surface area ratio different?  Or is it that the extra height of the L16 contributes to more electrolyte stratification?  Or??
>  
> Thanks,
>  
> Jason Lerner
>  
> Waldron Power and Light Co.
>  
>  
> On Feb 14, 2012, at 9:02 PM, Ray Walters wrote:
>  
> > No, both golf cart batteries and industrial cells get more cycle life per $.
> > 
> > Ray
> > 
> > On 2/14/2012 1:18 PM, William Miller wrote:
> >> Colleagues:
> >> 
> >> Do any of you have experience with Interstate L-16 batteries?  Are they a good value?
> >> 
> >> Thanks in advance,
> >> 
> >> William Miller
> >> 
> > 
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