[RE-wrenches] L feet no flashing in shingle roof

Bill Loesch solar1online at charter.net
Wed Jul 4 12:25:10 PDT 2012


David,

Why does your editor put Todd's articles (and use him as a cover story) 
in your magazines (more than once, I believe) if it is not for his 
__experience__?

The fact that there is a prescribed product (more than one in this case) 
that gets blessed when old fashioned, time tested, craftsmanship has 
already solved the problem is a testament to what payola will buy. No 
leak, no negligence, no claim. But then your magazines wouldn't garner 
such a big advertizing budget without all those manufacturers with new 
and "improved" products. Additionally, this List would perhaps have to 
find alternative funding, too.

If you are really interested in eliminating the "irresponsible, 
fly-by-night, subsidy chasers" one easy way may be to eliminate the 
subsidy.

Bill Loesch
Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar


On 04-Jul-12 10:07 AM, David Brearley wrote:
>  Todd,
>
> The issue isn't whether your approach works, but whether it is 
> defensible in the event that something leaks. Most solar contractors 
> receive public funds (rebate monies, ARRA program distributions, 
> etc.). Some of those companies are installing systems in a manner that 
> is not building code compliant. It just takes a high profile leaky 
> roof at a VA hospital or a public housing project where a solar system 
> was installed in a manner that does not meet the building code to lose 
> years of goodwill and support for the industry. Modules prices have 
> fallen quite a bit, but we all loose if State and Federal or public 
> (opinion) support for the industry goes away.
>
> Obviously, that's the worst case scenario: That somehow the industry 
> gets painted as being made up of a bunch of irresponsible, 
> fly-by-night, subsidy chasers. Probably nothing to worry about, 
> though. I'm pretty sure there's no precedence for that sort of thing 
> actually happening. Right?
>
> What's more likely is that AHJs will get hip to the fact that they 
> need to inspect the building code compliance of roof attachments. When 
> they do, which side of the curve will your company be on? (Since your 
> mind seems to be made up, Todd, that question is addressed to List at 
> large.)
>
> Happy Independence Day,
>
> David Brearley, Senior Technical Editor
> SolarPro magazine
> NABCEP Certified PV Installer ™
> david.brearley at solarprofessional.com 
> <mailto:david.brearley at solarprofessional.com>
> Direct: 541.261.6545
>
>
> On Jul 3, 2012, at 10:37 PM, toddcory at finestplanet.com 
> <mailto:toddcory at finestplanet.com> wrote:
>
>> i wasn't going to enter into this discussion, but this posting 
>> prompted me.
>>
>> my most recent job was done with the assistance of the customer. he 
>> and i have a long working history, my being his employee some 25 
>> years ago installing shw systems in the area, and now he hiring me to 
>> do his personal home's pv system.
>>
>> he insisted on straight L foot mounting without flashings... and i 
>> have to agree. in the 25 to 30 years since we did those shw systems, 
>> not a single one has leaked. plus, the installation was at the roof 
>> ridgeline, so pv quick mounts wouldn't have worked anyway. we put 2 X 
>> 8 blocking in the attic between the trusses to acomodate the mounting 
>> bolts and used a nice fattie gob of black silicone on each foot, 
>> which gooshed out when tightened. the mount will easily outlast the 
>> roof... leak free.
>>
>> honestly, i don't care what the ubc/ibs says. if done properly,these 
>> kinds of mounts are bombproof. years of experience backs this up. 
>> also, i have seen plenty of 'code compliant' oatey no-caulk sewer 
>> vent flashings with rotten rubber leaking into homes to know flashed 
>> penetrations are no panacea either.
>>
>> todd
>>
>> On Tuesday, July 3, 2012 2:53pm, "David Brearley" 
>> <david.brearley at solarprofessional.com 
>> <mailto:david.brearley at solarprofessional.com>> said:
>>
>> +1 on the use of structural screws. We ran an article about lag 
>> screws a couple years ago:
>>
>> http://solarprofessional.com/article/?file=SP3_4_pg70_Shelly
>>
>> One of the things that surprised me when I read this manuscript is 
>> how variable lag screws are in terms of construction and quality. 
>> Besides the convenience of being able to drive a structural screw 
>> without a pilot hole, the engineering specs are likely better 
>> documented and the manufacturing tolerances are probably tighter as 
>> well.
>>
>> FWIW: I think that using unflashed attachments in these litigious 
>> times is unwise. It's not consistent with best practices in the 
>> construction industry. It does not meet building codes. It violates 
>> the roof warranty. It makes your competition look good.
>>
>> We ran our first article on this topic 4 years ago, in our inaugural 
>> issue of SolarPro magazine:
>>
>> http://solarprofessional.com/article/?file=SP1_1_pg72_Fain
>>
>> The industry has come a long way since then, both in terms of 
>> awareness and in terms of off-the-shelf flashed attachment options. 
>> There are so many quality flashed attachment solutions to chose from 
>> now that I'm not sure why anyone would knowingly expose themselves to 
>> a possible construction negligence claim.
>>
>> Drive straight,
>>
>> David Brearley, Senior Technical Editor
>> SolarPro magazine
>> NABCEP Certified PV Installer ™
>> david.brearley at solarprofessional.com 
>> <mailto:david.brearley at solarprofessional.com>
>> Direct: 541.261.6545
>>
>> On Jul 3, 2012, at 4:11 PM, Garrison Riegel wrote:
>>
>>     The EcoFasten GF1 flashing is easy to install on a retrofit and
>>     will not necessarily add any height to the rail. If you do need
>>     to trim the flashings installed around the skylight, then I would
>>     recommend adding sealant to these penetrations.  We ditch the
>>     included lag and use a 5/16” GRK RSS (self tapping structural
>>     screw).  The combination works great and does not require a pilot
>>     hole.
>>
>>     RSS:
>>     http://www.grkfasteners.com/en/RSS_1_2_information.htm
>>
>>     GF1
>>     http://ecofastensolar.com/pdf/GF1%20Cutsheets.pdf
>>
>>     Best,
>>
>>     Garrison Riegel
>>     Project Manager
>>
>>     *Solar Service Inc*
>>     [p] 847-677-0950
>>     [f] 847-647-9360
>>     www.solarserviceinc.com <http://www.solarserviceinc.com/>
>>
>>     NABCEP Certified Solar PV and Thermal Installer™
>>
>>     “There is no room for flashings. The L feet will go very close to
>>     the skylights and the flashing would hit the edge of them. Plus
>>     there is an existing array that was done by another installer
>>     that is done with L feet only. The new array would be higher.”
>>
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
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