[RE-wrenches] Out of Warranty Inverter Replacements

Fri Aug 19 12:32:31 PDT 2011

As long as "next gen" means "actually works reliably." We gave up on TED
after many failed installations due to interference and product
failures. Unfortunately, the competitors we evaluated came up short on
reliability and/or accuracy. We're still crossing our fingers that
Galtronics can come through with their SymHome devices.

My opinion on this is that we really need Sq D or another major
panelboard mfr to step up and make consumer grade breakers that
communicate with a data collection device and Internet gateway. Forget
the add-on gadgetry. Integrate it with the existing distribution
hardware.

Jason Szumlanski

Fafco Solar

From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Keith
Cronin
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 2:04 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Out of Warranty Inverter Replacements

Perhaps as an add on value-relationship building component for your
businesses, go introduce your clients, new and existing to The Energy
Detective-

http://www.theenergydetective.com/ted-5002-g

At the very least, you can help them, help you, monitor what they have
and discern between whether their system is optimized and if not, the
remedy.

For folks in the industry, they have pricing below MSRP.

Relatively simple device and you can monitor the inverter(s) and the
home load to get a comparative.

They are working on the next gen of their product to be able to get
granular on every load in the home, but this will be a boat load of CT's
and MTU's, but I believe this will allow us all to identify phantom
loads and help close the gap on maintenance and often expensive service
calls for folks that are grid connected.

Keith

________________________________

From: Mark Frye <markf at berkeleysolar.com>
To: 'RE-wrenches' <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 7:56 AM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Out of Warranty Inverter Replacements

Ray,

Here are the nameplate module rating vs nameplate inverter rating:

- 24 x 175 W = 4,200 W : IG4000 = 4,000 W : 105 %

- 18 x 175 W = 3,150 W : IG3000 = 2,700 W : 117 %

- 8 x 175 W = 1,400 W : SB1100 = 1,100 W : 127 % (sub-optimal
orientation limits peak power levels)

I think it is fair to say that amps=heat=component aging. The question
is to what extent can the installer rely on the representations made by
manufactures with respect to their ratings and product life?

For instance, the 24 module system above lands well within the Fronius
specifications for max DC power and is "Good" based on their online
configuration tool, and also well in line the the SMA white paper of
many years ago suggesting a 120% mod/inv ratio as optimal.

And yet, the first unit failed in 4 years and the refurb failed in 2
year.

Mark Frye 
Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 
303 Redbud Way 
Nevada City,  CA 95959 
(530) 401-8024 
www.berkeleysolar.com <http://www.berkeleysolar.com/>   

________________________________

From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Ray
Walters
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 10:26 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Out of Warranty Inverter Replacements

Hi Mark;

In cases like that, I let the customer decide. My job is to present them
with two or three streamlined options and let them decide.
It seems it comes down to cost vs continued warranty (and possible
expandability?). Financial decisions ultimately need to be made by the
people paying the bill.
>From a technical perspective, I don't ever present an option that I
wouldn't be comfortable installing, and in the end everyone's happy.
(hopefully)

Just curious; what are the array sizes relative to the inverter rating?
I always wondered if inverters that were run at or over their rating
didn't last as long as inverters that were run well below their rating.
(just my stupid assumption that: more amps = more heat = less
reliability)

Ray

On 8/19/2011 11:03 AM, Mark Frye wrote: 

Folks, 

Yesterday I took a trip through my service area and initated 3 inverter
replacement actions: 

- A 6 year old Sunnyboy 1100W, 5 year warranty expired, $360 for a
refurbished unit w/ 1 year warranty, new replacement not available

- A 2 year old Fronius IG4000 refurbished, sent as warranty replacement
for unit failed at 4 years under 5 year warranty, now out of warranty,
est. $ 600 to refurbish with 1 year warranty

- A 4 year old Fronius IG3000, under 10 year warranty, warranty
replacement and service fee provided by Fronius 

I have to decide, what is best for my out of warranty customers: 

- Buy the refurbished units w/ 1 year warranty 
- Buy new replacement units with 10 or 20 year warrranties 
- Buy entirely new equipment such as Enphase or SolarEdge 

What are other folks experiencing as we move well past the 5 year
warranty horizon for many of our earlier customers? 

Mark Frye 
Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 
303 Redbud Way 
Nevada City,  CA 95959 
(530) 401-8024 
www.berkeleysolar.com <http://www.berkeleysolar.com>   

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