[RE-wrenches] Dangerous installs/installers..

Sat May 7 14:01:56 PDT 2011

We charge $185 for the first hour and $125 for every hour thereafter if the project is local and more if there is significant travel time.  I say this only because the 35/hr guys are killing me and their work is worth the price... I also don't see the lowest price cycle helping the industry.

Andrew Koyaanisqatsi
President
Solar Energy Solutions, Inc.
503-238-4502
www.solarenergyoregon.com

On May 7, 2011, at 1:31 PM, Kristopher Schmid <solman at legacysolar.com> wrote:

> We will be seeing a lot more of this with the big box stores selling solar.  I have already set my rate at 150/hour with a blanket liability form in anticipation of this kind of work.  We can only hope that nobody kills themselves in the process 'cause you know that it will be the solar energy and not the deceased homeowner that's blamed in the media.
> 
> On Sat, May 7, 2011 at 1:26 PM, Jesse Dahl <dahlsolar at gmail.com> wrote:
> I agree completely, and if a homeowner did this kind of work they have to be told how dangerous it can be.
> 
> 
> Jesse
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On May 7, 2011, at 8:43 AM, penobscotsolar at midmaine.com wrote:
> 
> > This sounds more like many of the owner-installed systems we see. If the
> > customer paid a "professional" for a job like that it is partially that
> > clients fault. Those potential clients who don't do their homework often
> > get what they pay for......
> >
> > Daryl DeJoy
> > NABCEP Certified PV installer
> > Penobscot Solar Design
> >
> >
> >> <html><body><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000;
> >> font-size:10pt;"><div>Welcome to the Rodeo partner..
> >> </div><div><br></div><div><br>Dan Brown<br>Foxfire Energy
> >> Corp.<br>Renewable Energy Systems<br>(802)-483-2564<br><a
> >> href="http://www.Foxfire-Energy.com">www.Foxfire-Energy.com</a><br>NABCEP
> >> #092907-44</div><div><br><br></div>
> >> <blockquote id="replyBlockquote" webmail="1" style="border-left: 2px solid
> >> blue; margin-left: 8px; padding-left: 8px; font-size:10pt; color:black;
> >> font-family:verdana;">
> >> <div id="wmQuoteWrapper">
> >> -------- Original Message --------<br>
> >> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Dangerous installs/installers..<br>
> >> From: Jesse Dahl <<a
> >> href="mailto:dahlsolar at gmail.com">dahlsolar at gmail.com</a>><br>
> >> Date: Sat, May 07, 2011 2:45 am<br>
> >> To: RE-wrenches <<a
> >> href="mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>
> >> <br>
> >> <div></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span"
> >> style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875);
> >> -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
> >> -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); font-size:
> >> medium; "><span>Wrenches,</span></span><span class="Apple-style-span"
> >> style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875);
> >> -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
> >> -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); font-size:
> >> medium; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span"
> >> style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875);
> >> -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
> >> -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); font-size:
> >> medium; "><span></span></span><span class="Apple-style-span"
> >> style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875);
> >> -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
> >> -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); font-size:
> >> medium; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span"
> >> style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875);
> >> -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
> >> -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); font-size:
> >> medium; "><span> The other day on my travels, I came across a very
> >> scary small stand-alone hunting shack install.  All the wiring is cut
> >> extension cords and some UF, the cable from the charge controller to the
> >> batteries is an extension cord with the 14s paralleled.   mice chewed
> >> wire, splices taped and laid on the ground, mis matched modules (least of
> >> the problems). not a disco or OCPD to be seen. </span></span><span
> >> class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26,
> >> 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227,
> >> 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469);
> >> font-size: medium; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span"
> >> style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875);
> >> -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
> >> -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); font-size:
> >> medium; "><span></span></span><span class="Apple-style-span"
> >> style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875);
> >> -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
> >> -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); font-size:
> >> medium; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span"
> >> style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875);
> >> -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
> >> -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); font-size:
> >> medium; "><span>Also a 500W wind generator 100 yards from the battery
> >> bank, feed with #10s and then spliced to #12s (most of it just laying on
> >> the ground.  </span></span><span class="Apple-style-span"
> >> style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875);
> >> -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
> >> -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); font-size:
> >> medium; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span"
> >> style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875);
> >> -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
> >> -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); font-size:
> >> medium; "><span></span></span><span class="Apple-style-span"
> >> style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875);
> >> -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
> >> -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); font-size:
> >> medium; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span"
> >> style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875);
> >> -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
> >> -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); font-size:
> >> medium; "><span>Now I think the owner should have some responsibility to
> >> stop work when the see things this awful, but what can/should we as an
> >> industry do about this? What do we say to people that install stuff like
> >> this? Take them to court?</span></span><span class="Apple-style-span"
> >> style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875);
> >> -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
> >> -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); font-size:
> >> medium; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span"
> >> style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875);
> >> -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
> >> -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); font-size:
> >> medium; "><span></span></span><span class="Apple-style-span"
> >> style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875);
> >> -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
> >> -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); font-size:
> >> medium; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span"
> >> style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875);
> >> -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
> >> -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); font-size:
> >> medium; "><span>A small 2500w with surge of 5000w inverter was used here
> >> with 6 paralleled 12V deep cycle batteries. Powering a few lights and a
> >> vacuum at first, a well pump was added later. I could see the lights and
> >> vacuum, but a pump?  How do you go about wiring the output of an
> >> inverter like this?  From a receptacle on the inverter to what? This
> >> guy cut an extension cord off and splice it to some NM and ran it inside
> >> to the loads. No breaker, I just can't get over the fact this guy sleeps
> >> at night...</span></span><span class="Apple-style-span"
> >> style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875);
> >> -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
> >> -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); font-size:
> >> medium; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span"
> >> style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875);
> >> -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
> >> -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); font-size:
> >> medium; "><span></span></span><span class="Apple-style-span"
> >> style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875);
> >> -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
> >> -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); font-size:
> >> medium; "><br></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span"
> >> style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875);
> >> -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
> >> -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); font-size:
> >> medium; "><br></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span"
> >> style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875);
> >> -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
> >> -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); font-size:
> >> medium; ">You should see the photos of this mess...<br></span><span
> >> class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26,
> >> 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227,
> >> 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469);
> >> font-size: medium; "><span></span></span><span class="Apple-style-span"
> >> style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875);
> >> -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
> >> -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); font-size:
> >> medium; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span"
> >> style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875);
> >> -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
> >> -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); font-size:
> >> medium; "><span></span></span><span class="Apple-style-span"
> >> style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875);
> >> -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
> >> -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); font-size:
> >> medium; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span"
> >> style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875);
> >> -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
> >> -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); font-size:
> >> medium; "><span>Thank you for your thoughts,</span></span><span
> >> class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26,
> >> 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227,
> >> 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469);
> >> font-size: medium; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span"
> >> style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875);
> >> -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
> >> -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); font-size:
> >> medium; "><span></span></span><span class="Apple-style-span"
> >> style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875);
> >> -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
> >> -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); font-size:
> >> medium; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span"
> >> style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875);
> >> -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
> >> -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); font-size:
> >> medium; "><span></span></span><span class="Apple-style-span"
> >> style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875);
> >> -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
> >> -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); font-size:
> >> medium; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span"
> >> style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875);
> >> -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
> >> -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); font-size:
> >> medium; "><span></span></span><span class="Apple-style-span"
> >> style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875);
> >> -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
> >> -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); font-size:
> >> medium; "><br></span><span class="Apple-style-span"
> >> style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875);
> >> -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
> >> -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); font-size:
> >> medium; "><span>Jesse</span></span><span class="Apple-style-span"
> >> style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875);
> >> -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
> >> -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); font-size:
> >> medium; "><br></span><br>Sent from my
> >> iPhone</div><hr>_______________________________________________<br>
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> >> </blockquote></span></body></html>
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> 
> -- 
> Thanks,
> Kris Schmid
> 
> Legacy Solar, LLC
> 864 Clam Falls Trail
> Frederic, WI 54837
> 715-653-4295
> www.legacysolar.com
> solman at legacysolar.com
> 
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