[RE-wrenches] Roofers installing solar = creative, new installation methods
Keith Cronin
electrichi01 at yahoo.com
Sun Jan 30 10:25:00 PST 2011
Nick, et al
What if you could increase the value and trust of the relationship one step
further and give them an upfront price vs a T&M for the extra work?
They would know, before we begin the work to remedy the idea of how much it will
cost and how long it would take.
Another feather in your cap, to manage the relationship with the client, or
prospective client.
All of the 10 items listed below, can be quoted, out of your company price book,
on the spot. (well, except for shopping for the refrigerator, but you could go
online and look at sears.com !! with them)
To me, this adds alot of common ground with your prospect and exemplifies that
you're organized and been there, done that and anticipate
things. Thoroughness helps get the next project and when they know
what it is going to cost, before we do the work, even more comforting to them.
If found in 90% + situations we can help our prospective customers with
knowledge, education and what it will cost to perform
the tasks needed to fulfill their needs.
This also helps your business in a few tangible ways. One, you assign time to
tasks. You can plan out your labor on your calendar with a reasonable margin of
error for scheduling your team. Two, by providing a price
on the spot, you can also have terms, like pay when completed. I equate this to
going to the supermarket. You can't leave without paying. Every item is priced,
before you go to the checkout counter. It should be the same
with our services. T&M is necessary sometimes, but it gives wiggle room for
delayed payments, and now we are the bank. How much money do we end up floating
each week/month year? We've kinda trained the buying public that this is ok.
It's expensive to do and by offering price before service and payment at the end
of the service, we greatly address our working capital and cash flow
constraints. Third, if you have team members going out to do the work, aka, your
journeyman and apprentices, there will be time associated to tasks and you can
setup reward systems to focus the team on being productive. I call it WIIFM-
what's in it for me, they all want to know what it is, so now we are "upfront"
with them. We reward excellence and include them in the successful outcome. They
are more enrolled in working with you, as this can sculpt their destiny and the
choices they make. They might be less inclined to leave at 3:30 that afternoon,
when if they just stay another 1.5 hours (example), they'd complete the job and
be available to tackle the next job in the queue.
Not only do I believe this is possible, but it is something we've done since
2003. It is effective, it works and it reshapes the culture and rituals in your
organization.
If you have any questions, you can contact me off list.
Aloha
Keith
________________________________
From: Nick Soleil <nicksoleilsolar at yahoo.com>
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Sent: Sat, January 29, 2011 10:12:36 PM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Roofers installing solar = creative, new installation
methods
Hi Keith:
That kind of thing really helps develop a trusting relationship with the
customer. Most customers seem willing to accept those charges on a T&M basis.
Nick Soleil
Project Manager
Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC
PO Box 657
Petaluma, CA 94953
Cell: 707-321-2937
Office: 707-789-9537
Fax: 707-769-9037
________________________________
From: Keith Cronin <electrichi01 at yahoo.com>
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Sent: Sat, January 29, 2011 1:54:40 PM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Roofers installing solar = creative, new installation
methods
Folks.....
To support this idea further, this weekend we have our building trade show at
our local convention center.
New names, new faces in the solar industry each time I go. Today was no
different. Many are what I would describe as folks that only provide solar
installations. Others are offshoots of their respective trades, like roofing.
Its the low hanging fruit, in their eyes, but my sense is they could be
providing more value that the customers are looking for, but don't know its even
available.
If the margins are razor thin for PV, why not offer other wrench services that
others desire not to touch, as it might not be as glamorous, but necessary.
I'm always surprised that when I get invited out to an install, like I did this
week, from one of my friendly competitors, how they seem to flagrantly overlook
other value added services which could benefit the customer.
Here was my short list (10) from a small residential project I was invited to
see this week: (full disclosure, the home was old, code wise)
1. GFCI receptacles- bathrooms, kitchen counter, outside and near the clients
pool.
2. Smoke detectors- their were opportunities to install 5 at this home and
interconnect them to notify everyone in the home, in the event of an emergency.
3. Panel labeling- identifying the circuits in the breaker box for the client.
4. Upon removal of the panel cover- clean up wiring fiasco's waiting to happen-
doubled up wires on breakers and a slew of other code issues.
5. Open junction boxes with wires essentially incapable of being stuffed into
the 4x4 j-box; over an extension cover and a blank plate.
6. Broken receptacle in the hallway; I suspect this is the vacuum cleaner plug
and it was probably damaged due to jerking out the cord instead of leaning over
to pull it out.
7. Fluorescent fixtures in the garage-workshop zone; upgrade to T-8's and save $
on the utility bill.
8. In our market, we have a penchant for having the second refrigerator outside.
This one was in the sun, roasting at the end of the day. Checked the born on
date and it was 1994. This is not energy efficient by any means. Brought my
Brand meter and was surprised at the amount of juice it was consuming.
Recommended taking the client to Sears and get an energy efficient one. Client
has a sentimental attachment to the refrigerator, but at my calcs, this
sentimental relationship was costing $22 a month.
9. They had the ubiquitous extension cord wrapped around the living room for a
mondo computer station. I recommended running a dedicated circuit to remedy the
code/cord situation.
10. In one section of the home, was the original part of the house and there
were still an old 6 circuit load center, filled to the gill with 12 circuits in
it. Clearly this was not designed to handle this much load and capacity, so I
recommended replacing it and or doing a calc to see if the feeder has reached
its limits and offer to re-route some of the circuits to the main panel.
I recommended to my friend, the competitor, to offer a free home inspection to
identify the deficiencies in their electrical infrastructure and add value to
the relationship. Seems simple, but often the PV is taking a front seat to other
things. In a competitive environment, that we are all in now, if we are all
doing apples to apples, then price seems to be the winner. When we add and offer
something else to the relationship, we have more than just a transaction. When
we all take the steps to raise the bar, others will follow. Everyones name gets
elevated, brand awareness wise and consumers will talk to each other about their
experiences and the value/education they've received. Sure, some entities will
do the minimum, as always. By providing a final package to your customers, upon
completion of your work, they would have pictures, documents etc., to show the
system in working condition (and attached to the roof!!).
Over the years, I've always elected to go out and fix others challenges, as it
has offered me perspective and a way to develop a relationship with someone who
might have been a little ignorant in their purchasing decisions. People tend to
remember you, when this happens and often you get referrals as a result. It
also means going into this type of relationship, delicately. I've not bashed the
competitor for what we've discovered, but to offer a solution to their current
situation and a step by step way to get there, together.
Lastly, with technology today, you could get a video camera, some boiler plate
questions and ask your customers about their experience with you and your
company. Post them on your company website, FB, wherever you market your
services. Referrals, by far, are the best conduit for the next project, or at
least this has been my road to success. People want to do business with people
they like and trust and price might not always be the final decision maker, as
they really want a company that will follow the golden rule and execute on
their contracts words.
If you know what your overhead is every day at your company, you can offer girl
scout cookies, if you can't sell a complete package to your prospective
customers. Uncover their desires by asking them what they want or what they've
heard about solar, is a bridge to understanding their needs first. Then can we
deliver on their needs.
Keith
________________________________
From: Nick Soleil <nicksoleilsolar at yahoo.com>
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Sent: Sat, January 29, 2011 9:24:12 AM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Roofers installing solar = creative, new installation
methods
Hi Joel:
For many years, when Petersen Dean was Old Country Roofing, I would install
the inverters and wiring for the Atlantis Sunslate roofs that they would sell.
I liked that partnership. Also, I recognize that solar is less and less of a
specialty anymore. Sooner than later, I would expect that solar installations
will be installed largely by electricians, general contractors, and even roofing
contractors (as long as they carry appropriate licensing.)
However, many of my old partners, such as roofers who I have often referred,
are now entering the solar industry. So my partners are becoming my
competitors. They have that right.
My hope is that whoever is installing solar, will at least provide a
quality installation. What worries me about the system I serviced this week,
where the modules were left sitting on a sloped roof without attachments, is
that the roofing attachments is the aspect of the project that the roofer should
be able to do best, but they skipped that step. That gives me some concern for
the safety of PV system owners and their neighbors.
Nick Soleil
Project Manager
Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC
PO Box 657
Petaluma, CA 94953
Cell: 707-321-2937
Office: 707-789-9537
Fax: 707-769-9037
________________________________
From: Joel Davidson <joel.davidson at sbcglobal.net>
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Sent: Fri, January 28, 2011 6:55:21 PM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Roofers installing solar = creative, new installation
methods
Andrew,
Carter era contractors did not kneecap alternative energy industry in the
1970s, but that's not a wrenches subject.
Sure, everyone has stories about bad customers, GCs, subs, equipment, etc. Some
of us are honest enough to admit that we have made a mistake or two. You don't
have to work for or with people you don't like or buy equipment you don't like.
But I don't know anyone in the building or energy industry who does not work
with others.
Few contractors nowadays do all the trades in-house. Do you sub out structural
engineering, surveying, roofing, arborist, concrete cutting, crane, etc.? Then
what's wrong with you being a sub if you like the other guy's work and can
control design and electrical installation or whatever you need to control?
There are plenty of decent contractors in your service area who would like to
have a good go-to PV company just as you like to have good go-to roofer. You
know your design and electrical costs and what margin you need for that portion
of your work. So what's the hassle?
Joel Davidson
----- Original Message -----
>From: Solar Energy Solutions
>To: RE-wrenches
>Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 8:41 AM
>Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Roofers installing solar = creative,new
>installation methods
>
>
>Joel,
>
>Our company cannot survive without selling an entire system. When we
>help the unqualified and untrained we legitimize unsubstantiated pv
>businesses. We get a dozen phone calls a month from folks wanting us
>to install their systems. It is a rat hole and we have learned that
>not only are such ventures unprofitable, they are fraught with poor
>designs and a plethora of other hassles. This whole thing reminds me
>of the Carter solar Gold Rush where, sure, a bunch of systems were
>installed, but look at the damage it did to the industry.
>
>Respectfully,
>
>
>
>Andrew Koyaanisqatsi
>President
>Solar Energy Solutions, Inc.
>Since 1987,
>Moving Portland and Beyond
>to an Environmentally Sustainable Future.
>503-238-4502
>www.solarenergyoregon.com
>
>"Better one's House too little one day
>than too big all the Year after."
>
>--- On Fri, 1/28/11, Joel Davidson <joel.davidson at sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
>
>
>>From: Joel Davidson <joel.davidson at sbcglobal.net>
>>Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Roofers installing solar = creative, new
>>installation methods
>>To: "RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>>Date: Friday, January 28, 2011, 7:06 AM
>>
>>
>>
>>Guys,
>>You're missing a business opportunity. Instead of complaining about
>>roofers' bad work and competition, show the company owners photos of
>>their screw-ups and your quality work. Tell him that he is a risk.
>>Then offer to do their design and electrical installation (let them
>>do the sales, roofing, and grunt work).
>>Joel Davidson
>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: Warren Lauzon
>>>To: RE-wrenches
>>>Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 3:35 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Roofers installing solar = creative,new
>>>installation methods
>>>
>>>
>>>We have seen a lot of the roofing companies nibbling around the
>>>edges of solar installs lately. I have only seen a couple of
>>>installs personally, and they were far from what I would call
>>>professional or reliable. Not quite as bad as your example, but in
>>>one case they had used Romex to run the wiring down to the inverter,
>>>and not in conduit.
>>>
>>>From: Nick Soleil
>>>Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 8:11 PM
>>>To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>Subject: [RE-wrenches] Roofers installing solar = creative,new
>>>installation methods
>>> Hi wrenches:
>>> Have you noticed that roofing companies have recently been
>>>trying to sell solar? One company thought of something that I had
>>>never considered. Listen to this neat story.
>>> I was servicing a job today, where a roofing company recently
>>>removed and re-installed a PV array on a 12 degree sloped roof.
>>>The funny thing is that the roofer didn't want to penetrate his new
>>>roof, so he and the customer decided to leave the panels sitting on
>>>the composition roof without any attachments to the structure.
>>>They didn't think it was necessary!
>>>
>>> Shortly afterward, the array slid down the roof, and a
>>>MultiContact connector came unplugged. The customer noticed that
>>>his system was not operating, and called us to the site.
>>>
>>>
>>> Nick Soleil
>>>Project Manager
>>>Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC
>>>PO Box 657
>>>Petaluma, CA 94953
>>>Cell: 707-321-2937
>>>Office: 707-789-9537
>>>Fax: 707-769-9037
>>>
>>>
>>>
________________________________
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