[RE-wrenches] Outback Breaker Problem and looking towards 2012

Steve Higgins shiggins at outbackpower.com
Thu Dec 29 06:25:00 PST 2011


Wrenches, 


I'll admit that those Panel mounted breakers are a bit on the flimsy side... Yes... 

And Carling does make a better breaker... Yes... 

About 4 years ago I requested that we start using the better breaker and from what I understand the issue was costing on the breaker.  Back then I honestly didn't argue with product Mgmt too much.. Nowadays I find myself doing this more and more (Sorry Phil). 

I will again push this up the ladder. 

When it comes to the Lever Arms... This has been around since the Heart/Trace Days... I don't think that the breaker Manufactures make a better one, at least to what I've seen. 

Regards.  


Steve Higgins
Sales Application Engineering Mgr
African Business Development Mgr. 
Direct 360-618-4313
Outback Power Technologies 
5917 195th Street NE Arlington, Washington 98223
 

-----Original Message-----
From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Dan Fink
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 10:38 PM
To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback Breaker Problem and looking towards 2012

Jeff;

Yep, those darned net metering laws have made most of the manufacturers forget about off-grid farts like us. (I'm off grid since 1991).  I
*guess* it was fun back in the day taking stuff from Home Depot and adapting it to DC. Bring out the multi-coloured electrical tape! I see some sketchy retrofits these days.....those QO breakers were DC rated and fine at 12VDC, but get scary at 130VDC with MPPT ;-)

Look at the bright side, Jeff -- off-grid is becoming a specialist market niche thanks to non-islanding direct grid tie now being 90% of the market at least. We have local off grid installers here trading off clients as they are too busy.

We will continue to stick like glue to the manufacturers who still remember what off-grid is and make products that are designed for it. 
One of them spells his name funny, and we love him.

I'll make an addition to your list of off-grid product woes, with a NEC issue included. Why can't we use welding cable for battery interconnects and inverter cables? It's a joy to work with, doesn't break off DC Breaker and other assorted terminals, and takes crimps better than the code stuff. It's like Buttah in the breaker box. The code stuff? Good luck finding it here, and add a zero to the price per foot. At least most electrical inspectors (here anyway) have eyesight that's worse than mine in low light and cramped conditions and can't read the stampings on the cable anyway....

By the way, nice rant Jeff!

-- 

Dan Fink
Executive Director;
Otherpower
Buckville Energy Consulting
Buckville Publications LLC
IREC / NABCEP accredited Continuing Education Providers
(970) 672-4342

> Not only have I snapped off my share of rear studs on these DC 
> breakers, but have you noticed how the large 175 and 200 amp breakers 
> have this large "batt" handle molded onto this very flimsy strip of a plastic lever arm
> going inside the breaker?   I have a whole box of these that were broken off
> in shipment or during installation.
>
> I keep getting the feeling that all solar manufacturers have given up 
> the smaller off-grid and battery backup solar market and are only 
> concentrating on the large module and grid-tie commercial market.  
> Seems like there is a race to see who can manufacturer a module that 
> finally is so large that nobody can pick up without a crane.
>
> Hard to find modules with junction boxes instead of pigtails, DC 
> connectors that finally get standardized and don't require buying a 
> new $600 crimper every year, DC breakers and terminals that do not 
> twist-off during installation, batteries that last and have 
> standardized terminals, DC panel boxes with the right size and 
> location of knock-outs, back-up residential generators that do not 
> void the warranty if run more than twice per year, DC rated 
> disconnects that you have to read hard-to-find documentation before 
> you find out they must be de-rated from what their nameplate rating 
> actually says, and inverters for battery-based systems that you do not have to be a graduate computer programmer just to set up.
>
> And finally, let's not forget modules having nameplates with data 
> based on real world conditions, not some perfect conditions the client 
> never understands - "why isn't my 2 kW nameplate rated system producing 2 kW?".
>
> Just saying.....................
>
> Jeff Yago
> DTI Solar
>


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