[RE-wrenches] Rail concerns (was: Top of POST mount)

Mike Nelson mdelectricsolar at gmail.com
Wed Mar 23 07:42:43 PDT 2011


Yes, the IronRidge slide in bolt on the top of the rail is a design flaw.
They should use drop in T-bolts, like Unirac. What happens when you break
one, after installing enphase micro's, and grounding lugs, etc. I've had to
cut the bolt off, and install an extra Unirac t-bolt. IronRidge needs to
seriously rethink that one. Other than that, I really like their products,
especially the dark bronze anodized rail. Looks great under dark framed
modules.

Mike Nelson
MD Electric & Solar
Gualala, Ca.

On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 7:34 AM, <dan at foxfire-energy.com> wrote:

>  Yup.. I'm on board with the bolted vs clamp notion for this app.. I also
> agree with a wider spacing for panel attachments...
>
> As for racking manufacturers and design oopsies, anyone have anything nice
> to say about Iron Ridge roof mounts? Personally, I kinda like the rail
> design, but the slide in bolt set up seriously sucks..  or Am I missing
> something.. again? db
>
>
> Dan Brown
> Foxfire Energy Corp.
> Renewable Energy Systems
> (802)-483-2564
> www.Foxfire-Energy.com <http://www.foxfire-energy.com/>
> NABCEP #092907-44
>
>
>  -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Rail concerns (was: Top of POST mount)
> From: August Goers <august at luminalt.com>
> Date: Wed, March 23, 2011 10:09 am
> To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>
>  You definitely have a point from a basic engineering point of view that
> bolts through the module bottom holes is technically the most robust option.
> However, the main racking companies have been selling top down clamps for a
> very long time and the two big ones, Unirac and Pro Solar, haven't changed
> their design for a long long time as far as I can tell. I tend to like Pro
> Solar's clamps, especially the end clamps, a bit better than Unirac's but I
> have to believe that if there was a problem that these companies would be
> the first to change their design. Modules flying off the rack or roof is a
> very bad thing. Some of you may recall the modified hex bolts that Unirac
> was shipping for a little while a couple of years ago. They definitely
> weren't good but Unirac got right on it and we had to switch out each and
> every one that we had installed... That said, if you're talking about pole
> mounts and other types of racking where you can get underneath easily then
> why not just use the bottom holes.
>
> -August
>
>  *From:* re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
> re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Jason Szumlanski
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 23, 2011 4:40 AM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Rail concerns (was: Top of POST mount)
>  I tend to agree about the clamps, and in a case like this where there is
> little risk of an expensive mistake with a voided warranty, I would actually
> drill holes in the frame and use bottom clamps in addition to top clamping.
>
>  Jason Szumlanski
> Fafco Solar
>
>
>  *From:* re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
> re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *William Miller
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 22, 2011 5:48 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Rail concerns (was: Top of POST mount)
>  Friends:
>
> When installing modules on extruded rail systems, I worry that any
> vibration or motion could loosen top-down clamps.  Unlike bottom-up systems
> that install with tried-and-true bolts and lock washers through captive
> holes, clamp systems seem less "positive" in holding capability.  If one
> rail in the proposed design moves in relation to the other, the clamps could
> loosen and the modules could eventually slide right off the rail.  It
> appears that wind turbulence could rock the modules in the proposed design,
> there is a lot of leverage for that.  This might loosen clamps.
>
> I hesitate to design my own racking.  Small business management is all
> about controlling risk.  I do not want to be responsible for damaged modules
> if my design fails.
>
> At least one local AHJ forbids home-brew racks for a permitted system.  I'm
> not sure I support that restrictive approach.  I might suggest allowing them
> for owner-builder systems where the home owner assumes the liability.  For
> myself, the remaining tasks associated with installing a system properly
> have enough pitfalls without me playing structural engineer.
>
> And lastly, it is my understanding that Solar World had temporarily
> abandoned mounting holes in the back rails of their new "Plus" modules (my
> quotes) and even abandoned the flanges altogether.  According to what I
> heard, industry pressure forced them to add them back in, but as an option.
> This is third-hand knowledge, but I do know that removing the option to
> mount panels with through bolts would be a big mistake.
>
> William Miller
>
>
>
>
> Here is my “cobulated” idea, admittedly done this way to take advantage of
> parts in stock:
>
> http://www.fafcosolar.com/download/402/Cobulate.pdf
>
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