[RE-wrenches] What is a solar installer...?

Nick Soleil nicksoleilsolar at yahoo.com
Fri Oct 15 12:52:28 PDT 2010


    I did not reply to this post originally, because it was pertaining to 
Canadian contractor laws, but in California, the acceptable license 
classifications for installing solar are C-10 (electric), C-46 (solar), General 
Contractor B, or General Engineering Contractor A.  These classifications are 
the classifications listed as acceptable by SunPower in its online SunPower 
University. 

     I was really excited when the CEC was considering only paying rebates to 
C-10 and B contractors (in 03'/04'), but that never panned out, just like the 
requirement for NABCEP never panned out either.  The C-46 license was primarily 
focused on Thermal systems for many years and was created to address thermal 
contractors, but now includes PV, too.
     I have personally received the licenses for C-10 and B, and AAES holds a 
General Engineering A license.  I have had to defend the A license to some 
jurisdictions, who have limited the license requirements to C-10 and B, but the 
license is classified for 'power plants' and I have always been approved.  


 Nick Soleil
Project Manager
Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC
CSL 806325
PO Box 657
Petaluma, CA 94953
Cell:   707-321-2937
Office: 707-789-9537
Fax:    707-769-9037




________________________________
From: "SOLARPRO at aol.com" <SOLARPRO at aol.com>
To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
Sent: Fri, October 15, 2010 8:12:34 AM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] What is a solar installer...?

 Hello:  
The reason California instituted the (C46) solar classification 25 years  ago is 
simple: to resolve these issues.  At a point in the past, before the  C46, in 
order to operate as a 'solar contractor', one needed a license in  the following 
specialties:
Plumbing
Electrical
Sheet Metal or
Heating and Air
Swimming Pool
Roofing.
This being a forum dedicated to discussing technical issues, I feel  compelled 
to restrain my political self.
A great percentage (>90%) of the problems we are asked  to resolve for stranded 
adopters have been caused by properly licensed  electricians, roofers and 
general contractors. This not to say that these  licensed professions are not 
qualified, but instead that solar is unique... a  separate license is for this 
trade should be instituted in every jurisdiction. 

 
Patrick A. Redgate
State license 483280 (C46)
Ameco Solar, Inc.
 
 
In a message dated 10/15/2010 6:22:07 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
peter.parrish at calsolareng.com writes:
Hello    Benn,
>
>I have some pretty strong opinions about this subject but some of    them are
>reflections on politics as opposed to sound engineering design and    best
>installation practices.
>
>See my comments interspersed    below:
>
>Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President
>California Solar    Engineering, Inc.
>820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065
>CA Lic.    854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26
>peter.parrish at calsolareng.com  
>Ph    323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax    323-258-8885
>
> 
>________________________________________
>From:    re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
>[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org]    On Behalf Of benn kilburn
>Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 1:12 PM
>To:    Wrenches
>Subject: [RE-wrenches] What is a solar    installer...?
>
>Wrenches,
>a colleague of mine is looking for feedback    to the following email he
>received regarding PV installers and electrical    work.  I have responded to
>him, however, I am quite interested to hear    this list's response....
>
>
>LETTER--
>'Colleague'  - next week    Alberta’s “major municipalities” electrical chief
>inspectors    are getting together to talk about issues. One item I have    
>asked
>to put on the agenda is qualifications of solar installers. I    hope to see a
>start on forming some type of agreement on is who    is qualified to do what
>work on a solar installation and what is    considered electrical work that
>only electricians can perform. 
>
>>>> In California, we have two specialty contractor licenses    Solar (C-46)
>and Electrical (C-10) and well as the General license (B) --    which are
>qualified to install PV systems. I myself am a C-46 but I will    probably step
>up to taking the C-10 for political reasons.
>
>There    seems to be courses popping up all over to teach everyman to be    a
>solar installer, but what work is clearly reserved    for electricians to do?
>The Safety Codes Act speaks to Electrical    Systems, CE (Canadian Electrical)
>Code defines electrical installation    and electrical equipment.
>
>>>> Most (but not all) of the    authorities having jurisdiction over PV
>installations (here in California    these are City or County Building and
>Safety Departments) see PV as just an    electrical system and check plans and
>do inspections accordingly. However,    the design and installation of the
>racking system is an essential part of    the overall picture. PV systems need
>to be attached to properly transfer    the dead and live loads from the PV
>array to the major structural elements    of the roof (e.g. rafters) and done
>in such a way to preserve    impermeability of water (and snow). In many parts
>of CA we get 90 mph    winds, which can transfer substantial loads to the
>racking system. Finally,    Fire Departments have begun to analyze PV array
>layouts from the    perspective of access to, and movement on, a roof during a
>fire. Most of    the racking systems are pre-engineered, and if you follow the
>design    guidelines, you should be okay. What I am trying to say is that
>proper    mechanical/structural design is important (maybe a 1/3 of the design
>and    1/2 the installation) but the manufacturers to a good job of    
providing
>guidelines for the installers.
>
>>>> Electrical    design is more involved and there are more opportunities to
>commit design    errors: PV string sizing, voltage drop and ampacity
>calculations, over    current protection, component selection, and grounding.
>But here's the    catch: almost all of this material is PV-specific, and very
>few    electricians have been educated or trained in this area. They pick it up
>as    they go along (poor choice) or take a course specifically in the area of
>PV    design and installation (better choice).
>
>>>>Let me make a WAG.    If one were to randomly pick a C-10 electrician out of
>the statewide pool    and do the same for a C-46; the C-46 would be better
>prepared to design and    install a PV system than the C-10. The overwhelming
>majority of residential    installs in CA are done by solar contractors, I am
>less sure about small    commercial (say up to 15 kW to 50 kW).
> 
> What I hope we    accomplish is a stance we can take to the EIAA (Electrical
>Inspectors    Association of Alberta) conference then to Apprenticeship and
>Industry    Training who ultimately enforces who does work in the    trade.
>
>>>> IMHO, the first thing you should look at is a Solar    Contract license --
>if you don’t already have one. The second thing is to    make available PV
>classes for electrical (or other) contractors. There are    scores of
>consultants/instructors in the US that are prepared to provide    this service
>on an ad hoc basis. However, an on-going program at a local    college offering
>courses on PV as well as other renewable energy    disciplines (e.g. wind)
>would be the best long term    solution.
> 
>To me the PV module racking can be done by anyone,    but almost all of the
>rest of the installation – from wire pulling    to interconnecting modules,
>mounting of the inverters etc falls    clearly into the scope of practice for
>electricians.
>
>>>>    You are wrong about that. And the way I know you are wrong is this. We
>get    about one call a month from a PV system owner who wants us to take a
>look    at their system and fix it. About 1/2 of these calls involve bad
>inverters    (a relatively straightforward test and swap out procedure) but
>almost all    of the other half involves bad rooftop installations: poor DC
>wiring    management, poor grounding of PV modules and racking, poor flashing,
>poor    mechanical design and attachment. Leaky roofs represent maybe a 1/4 of
>the    total service calls. We rarely find bad wiring down on the    ground.
>
>>>> In my "Hall of Shame" there is a system that were    asked to look at by a
>large PV integration company that had sub contracted    out work to a local
>electrician. Here is what we found:
>
>(1) The    attachment to the roof was done with L-brackets without flashing    
>or
>caulking (roof was perhaps 3:12).
>
>(2) The racking system was    comprised entirely of strut and galvanized
>fasteners.
>
>(3) The module    "clamps" were comprised of galvanized machine bolts with
>fender washers.    The bolts were torqued sufficiently to deform the fender
>washers. I    wondered to the extent that the "point stresses" were transferred
>to the PV    modules and how long the PV modules would last.
>
>(4) The DC wiring lay    on the roof in many places. Modules were grounded but
>the strut    wasn't.
>
>(5) The conduit, wiring, component selection and grounding on    the ground
>were fine.
>
>So you can see that ALL of the problems with    this particular install had to
>do with the PV-specific nature of the design    and installation, and none had
>to do with general electrical    work.
>
>One of the bigger players in the industry is saying “its now    getting to be
>all plug and play” and anyone can be an    installer.
>
>>>> Big players in what industry? There is a trend    to more integrated
>design, but "plug-and-play"? Not yet. 
> 
> Hoping an agreement like this can make it a level    playing field and
>consistent across the Province.
> 
> What    are your thoughts?
>
>>>> you've got them.
>
> 
>BACK    TO ME
>my thoughts are similar to the ones above, that the racking alone can    be
>installed by any 'properly trained' person.  However pretty much    every other
>aspect of a PV install directly falls under the scope of an    electrician and
>needs to be preformed by a journeyman or apprentice under    the supervision of
>a journeyman electrician.
>
>>>> And how do    you propose to insure that Joe Blow is "properly trained"?
>
>>>>    How do you insure an electrician has the PV-specific knowledge    and
>training?
>
>
>the following paragraph is from recent past EIAA    technical conference
>minutes.
> "Alberta Municipal Affairs (AMA) was    asked (earlier in 2009 by a
>Municipality) for an opinion on the Permit    Regulation regarding Homeowner
>Permits. The Permit Regulation states a    homeowner may be issued a permit
>where the electrical system serves that    dwelling. A photovoltaic system that
>is tied to the grid (utility    interactive) serves other than that dwelling.
>The response back from AMA    confirmed utility interactive PV systems do serve
>other than the dwelling    and as such permit issuers should not be issuing
>homeowner permits for    utility interactive PV systems."
>
>>>> I am not sure if the    question is about the requirement for a Contractor
>vs Homeowner to pull the    permit., or not. I don’t think owner/builders
>should be allowed to install    PV.
>
>My thinking is that this would include the addition of 'plug and    play'
>modules/inverters to an existing system as well  ...any comments    on this
>one?
>
>>>> I wouldn't get too involved with the    ramifications of "plug-and-play"
>until it becomes a    reality.
>
>cheers,
>benn
>
>DayStar Renewable Energy    Inc. 
>benn at daystarsolar.ca
>780-906-7807 
>HAVE A SUNNY    DAY
>
>
>


      
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