[RE-wrenches] Wiley Asset

Thu Sep 9 08:29:42 PDT 2010

    Considering that most of us have been designing and installing solar for a 
long time, we are all pretty comfortable with the Solar Pathfinder (or even the 
Solar Site Selector,) and I was resistant to upgrading to the Suneye.  However, 
in recent years, I have moved to the Solmetric Suneye, and I will never go back 
to the Pathfinder Software for a professional shade analysis. 

     If you like sitting over the Pathfinder with your customer, you will love 
doing that with the Suneye.  The Suneye can take the picture, it will provide 
you with an exact calculation of the annual, summer, and winter shading factors, 
with a great capture of the sky at that location.  

     My Suneye paid for itself in the first month, due to all the time I saved 
over using the Pathfinder software, which requires taking pictures, uploading 
them, renaming the images, editing them in the software, creating traces, 
returning to the site when the the camera images are blurry, or the glare is too 
much to see the shadows, etc.  

    The Solmetric Suneye, will normally see the electric wires overhead, and 
will add some shading due to it, but it does not effect the shading factors very 
extensively.  The wires can not be added with the Pathfinder Software. 

    I have not tried the Wiley tool, but it sounds like it will have many of the 
same time consuming issues as the Pathfinder and its software.
    Keep in mind that if you are trying to locate an array, calculating the 
exact shading factor while on the roof can be very time consuming with the 
pathfinder, but is instant with the Suneye.     

Nick Soleil
Project Manager
Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC
PO Box 657
Petaluma, CA 94953
Cell:   707-321-2937
Office: 707-789-9537
Fax:    707-769-9037

________________________________
From: R Ray Walters <ray at solarray.com>
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Sent: Wed, September 8, 2010 11:21:07 PM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Wiley Asset

The problem with all shading analysis tools I've used, is that they can't take 
into account the effects partial shading has on string performance. You have to 
calculate that separately, based on how you'll be wiring the strings.
2nd, I know that usually power lines (if far enough away) won't have much of an 
effect, as the light refracts around them somewhat, so it doesn't cast a sharp 
shadow.
Same thing with tree branches. This is where it gets tricky, no hard and fast 
rules that someone can write some software for.
It's going to depend on the modules, too. (some have more bypass diodes, etc.) 
So the best you could do, is test with one module at the installed angle, and 
shade it with a thin branch or wire at varying distances to see what the effects 
are.
25 ft I'm not sure, at 50 ft, a power line or small branch is probably OK, and 
10 ft. you'll have a problem for sure.
Just look at the shadows at the time of day you're worried about, to get some 
idea. I've often found a very fuzzy, almost indiscernible shadow at a distance 
that won't hurt performance too much.
The shadows seem to get fuzzier at early morning and late afternoon (smog 
effects?) which helps, too.
Basically if some cells are seeing 600 W/m2 while adjacent cells are getting 700 
or 800 W/m2, its probably going to be fine. If several cells only get 100 W/m2 
(full shading) while the rest get over 700 W/m2, that is going to cause real 
problems.
This would be another use for micro inverters, you won't lose whole strings, and 
even a partially shaded module will still have some usable output when wired to 
its own inverter.
Personally, though, I usually just relocate the array. 

R. Walters
ray at solarray.com
Solar Engineer

On Sep 8, 2010, at 11:30 PM, benn kilburn wrote:

Thanks for the feed back guys, much appreciated!  
>
>
>Now, how would you calculate for power/phone lines running thru the Pathfinder's 
>reflection.  There are about 6 of them (the largest being at least 1") at least 
>25-30 ft away directly east of the proposed array location, and they are running 
>straight north-south.  On the Pathfinder they run btwn 9 and 11am in June and 
>btwn 10:30 and 11:30 in December.  
>
>
>Would the pathfinder software, suneye or asset pick up on utility lines at that 
>distance?  How much effect do they have on available sun output? And while i'm 
>at it, how much do the 'software' tools pick up on the tips of leafless tree 
>branches at say 25ft, 50ft?
>
>
>i'll try out that spreadsheet idea, nice one!
>
>
>cheers,
>benn
>
>DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. 
>benn at daystarsolar.ca
>780-906-7807 
>HAVE A SUNNY DAY
>
>
>
>________________________________
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 20:05:08 -0700
>To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>From: william at millersolar.com
>Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Wiley Asset
>
>Benn:
>
>A colleague has used the Wiley took and calls it 'marginal.'
>
>I use the Pathfinder and I like the features Ray described.  I wrote a very 
>simple spreadsheet using the teeny numbers on the month lines to create 100% of 
>any month.  I highlight and delete any of the numbers that are shaded and the 
>remainder is the percent of exposure for a given month.  You can multiply the 
>output of PV watts or any other production result for a complete production 
>prediction.  Easy and free.
>
>William Miller
>
>
>At 05:38 PM 9/8/2010, you wrote:
>
>I've used the Pathfinder for decades, so I'm partial to them. Great for on-site 
>discussions of shading issues with the customer, as multiple people can see the 
>shading at the same time on the spot.
>>I've also used their Assistant software, and it works pretty well. You take a 
>>photo of the actual pathfinder from above, and then download the photo into 
>>their software.
>>You can then calculate total annual impact of any shading in Kwh, or percentage 
>>of annual production.
>>I've been quite happy with the system, and the price for a Pathfinder, and the 
>>software is much less than the Suneye, I believe.
>>
>>R. Walters
>>ray at solarray.com
>>Solar Engineer
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On Sep 8, 2010, at 3:46 PM, benn kilburn wrote:
>>
>>
>>Wrenches,
>>>
>>>I'm looking at trying out another 'solar site evaluation tool', the ASSET (Acme 
>>>Solar Site Evaluation Tool) from Wiley Electronics.  I'm looking for feedback on 
>>>its performance and user-ability.
>>>I have been using the pathfinder which is great, but not the pathfinder 
>>>software.
>>>
>>>Any comments on the ASSET or Pathfinder software would be greatly 
appreciated.
>>>
>>>Cheers,
>>>benn
>>>
>>>DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. 
>>>benn at daystarsolar.ca
>>>780-906-7807 
>>>HAVE A SUNNY DAY
>>>
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