[RE-wrenches] Roof anchors and proper rigging

Fri Apr 23 15:39:13 PDT 2010

Benn,

For shingle roofs I would really recommend products like roof jacks and
Cougar Paws (roof boots).

We have had to work on a few 12:12 metal pitches in a retrofit situation. 
We decided not to attach an anchor through the metal deck (trying to avoid
creating unnecessary holes) and instead have relied on chicken ladders
with walk-boards fastened between the chicken ladders.  In every instance
we have also relied on being tied off to some object (say a tree) on the
opposite side of the building.  This chicken ladder and walkboard method
is something we have adopted for steep shingle roofs as well (no tile
roofs here).

While this method is better than others I have discovered it is also far
from perfect.  Moving ladders takes time, ladders inevitably need to be
removed (someone has to get the hook over the ridge sometime), and ropes
with moving walk-boards and ladders can be dangerous if you are not moving
carefully.  These frustrations become especially evident when installing
solar hot water collectors.

I have not had much success with manlifts due to terrain issues, thermal
collector sizes, and the fact that inevitably someone needs to be outside
the lift to help mount something at some point in time.  I may just need
better training here.

I simply could not imagine walking on a 12:12 pitch for even a few hours a
day no matter how well harnessed.  I may not be in as good of shape as
other wrenches!  I will say I have tried roof boots and spraying the metal
roof with Sunkist in advance and neither method was particularly effective
(Korkers with the metal roof pads aren't a bad tool though).

Matt

Matthew Partymiller
Solar Energy Solutions LLC
(859) 312-7456
matt at solar-energy-solutions.com

>
> Rebecca, All Wrenches,
> I think it would be great to hear some feedback from other roof-dwelling
> Wrenches; past and present; on this issue.  Aside from any obvious
> electrical hazards from installing PV (which are much easier to control),
> the actual 'roof work' is the biggest safety issue that needs to be
> addressed.
> I recently installed a 4.4 kW system on a 60 degree roof pitch (home was
> built in '78 with solar thermal/PV in mind)  Fortunately the yard allowed
> for me to get a man-lift in there, so to me that was obviously the best
> way to go.  Otherwise the only other option i considered was maybe those
> roof jacks i picked up a while back, but haven't tried yet.
> Does anyone use roof jacks regularly for steeper roofs?
> I noticed in the recent HP issue that the installers were using the module
> mounting rails as 'roof jacks"!  Convenient maybe, but personally i would
> be quite hesitant at adding all that extra strain going up and down on the
> rails and the L-feet roof penetrations.  Please enlighten me if i'm being
> too cautious here.  Its not like i've never braced myself on the
> rails/L-feet before, but i've never solely relied on them as a working
> platform or for keeping me on the roof.
> I frequently go on roofs without being tied-off, but you have to be very
> confident in yourself and your abilities.  However it is always good to be
> reminded that confidence is useless in a free fall, ...slips and trips
> happen!   I install (and use) roof anchors whenever possible.  I have
> shutdown jobs before because i felt that the roof was too steep to work
> off of safely, and felt that working from ropes would be too time
> consuming, so i would end up getting a lift.  Which also helps drastically
> reduce wear and tear on the roof material itself.  Have you ever noticed
> how much roof material is left in the gutter after you've spent some time
> on the roof (mainly from asphalt shingles)?
> So aside from cowboyin' it, what are some preferred, tried, tested and
> true methods for safely installing a steep roof PV system?
> I look forward to sharing some ideas on this topic.
> cheers,benn
> DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. benn at daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A
> SUNNY DAY
>
>
>
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> Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 22:09:54 -0600
> From: solarphil at gmail.com
> To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Roof anchors and proper rigging
>
> Rebecca,
>
> A great post, with lots of good information and a wonderful attitude.
> However, there are some small nits that I feel compelled to pick,
> hopefully without distracting from the value of your message.
>
>
> Clear caulk has little to no UV resistance, and will degrade much quicker
> than colored.  In addition, most caulks are not compatible with the
> asphalt base of most 3-tab or architectural shingles.  Read the label
> before proceeding.
>
>
> Tying off to a vehicle is a really, really bad idea, for just the reasons
> you bring up.
>
> Rock on!
> Phil Undercuffler
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 7:17 PM, Rebecca Lundberg
> <Rebecca.Lundberg at powerfullygreen.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Ryan,A few thoughts on this. One, it is all about safety, and more than
> any code or compliance concern, you should be concerned about the safety
> of you and your crew, because that's basically why code is written. I
> spent 12-hours today and 12-hours yesterday (who needs the gym?!) hanging
> from a 12:12 pitch roof to install solar modules on one of my job sites,
> and my roof safety knowledge was put to the test because I had only 6" to
> work from on the eave and side edges, so my entire roof safety was based
> on that roof anchor and my gear -- there was no way to work in a safe way
> without it.
>
>
>
> Roof anchors are not a big deal -- they are easy to install and easy to
> remove and caulk with clear caulk so the attachment point is not visible
> when you are done. How often does the homeowner inspect the roof peak for
> goodness sakes? The caulk covering a roof anchor hole would never be
> visible from anywhere, and if installed right a PV system should not
> require any kind of maintenance outside of a rare module replacement or
> something. Sometimes the roof pitch is shallow and perhaps a roof anchor
> per person is not needed, but my job site this week required one roof
> anchor for each of us -- your life is at stake here, it is important to
> understand the value and limitations of these products. I have done PV
> installs on a standing seam metal roof, and I would argue that a roof
> anchor installed permanently (and painted) with the original installation
> on a metal roof is a VERY good idea, because after-the-fact roof anchors
> are not feasible, and the chance of needing to get up there sometime
> during the life of the roof is likely, and NO travel on a steep pitch
> metal roof is safe without being anchored. But putting a roof anchor on a
> residential roof after the fact is SO not a big deal.
>
> Attaching to the truck in the driveway might be a safe solution, but only
> IF the angle of incidence is correct for your safety, i.e. only if the
> truck is parked exactly opposite where you will be working on the roof.
> Also, it is only safe until your partner needs to run an errand to pick
> something up and forgets you are attached to it. Not really funny, I have
> heard REAL stories of this happening to a colleague.....
>
> Rather than a vehicle I prefer to use a sturdy tree on the opposite side
> of the house if this is absolutely the best option and a possibility. For
> a temporary scenario, i.e. a site assessment on a steep roof or on any icy
> roof in winter, I use my partner as a safety belay on the north side of
> the house. Yes, we throw a climbing rope over the house and use tried and
> true climbing gear, knots, communication protocol (with walkie-talkies),
> and procedure to help us be safe. The person providing the belay needs to
> be 'sturdier' than the person on the roof, usually, unless they are also
> tied off to a tree.
>
> In short, two suggestions. Yes, take an OSHA course so you are fully
> informed of the legal requirements and safety reasons for making sure of
> roof safety. And, and just as important in my opinion, I'd suggest you
> hook up with someone who can give you some real fixed-ropes climbing
> experience. I'm not kidding, this is THE most valuable skill I have as a
> solar installer. I've taught my subcontracted electricians about roof
> safety, and ensured that my crew has the best oversight possible because I
> KNOW what it takes. There is nothing akin to hanging off an exposed cliff,
> hundreds of feet in the air, with nothing but you, your climbing gear,
> your climbing harness, and your rope, to ensure your safety. This sort of
> scenario really taught me how to evaluate my gear and various scenarios so
> that I will live to see tomorrow and pursue my work towards a more
> sustainable lifestyle for America. Fixed ropes climbing is also fun! My
> ascending/rappelling skills are used weekly in my work as a residential
> solar installer, and a good knowledge of safe knot options has been
> invaluable as-well. If you can't find a climbing gym locally, find an
> adventure racing team (more here:
> http://mandatorygear.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=30)
> and ask them to spend a few hours training you in -- I'm certain you'll
> gain some valuable skills from the effort.
>
> Sincerely,Rebecca Lundberg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ®
>
> Owner/CEO, Powerfully Green
>
> Executive Board Member, Minnesota Renewable Energy Society
>
> Convenor, Solar Minnesota
>
>
>
>
>
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