[RE-wrenches] Inverter 1741 Listing Process

Exeltech exeltech at yahoo.com
Tue Oct 19 12:19:43 PDT 2010


boB covered the main points perfectly.

Manufacturers of UL-certified products are subject to unannounced spot-checks several times a year by the issuing NTRL to verify the products coming off the production line are absolutely identical to the products submitted for UL testing.  Any major deviation in the production units from lab-tested units can result in immediate de-certification and possible recall of any affected product(s).  "Major" in this case could be different software, mechanical changes, or a substitution of any components that affect safety or unit operation in any manner with unauthorized components .. for openers.

By the way .. for anyone who's not met boB in person .. I had the good fortune to do so at the Midwest Renewable Energy Fair in Wisconsin this past June.  Great guy.

Dan


--- On Tue, 10/19/10, boB Gudgel <boB at midnitesolar.com> wrote:

From: boB Gudgel <boB at midnitesolar.com>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Inverter 1741 Listing Process
To: gilligan06 at gmail.com, "RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Date: Tuesday, October 19, 2010, 12:42 AM



  

    
  On 10/18/2010 9:53 PM, Matt Lafferty wrote:
    

      
      
      Thanks for the info
            Dan and boB.
       
      What production tests
            required to maintain listing? Do you happen to know if there
            is a different regimen for micro vs string vs central
            inverters? 
    
    

    

    You mean, a difference between the two when UL, ETL, CSA comes by
    for their pop inspection ??

    

    Off hand, I don't  see why one inverter would be given any different
    kind of attention than the other

    type.  The UL/ETL followup inspections are basically to make sure
    you are following the proper

    manufacturing and testing processes such as, software version,
    verification that you are using

    UL recognized  sources of parts and materials, hi-potting at the
    correct voltages, etc.

    

    

    They are both grid-tie inverters so the testing processes are very
    similar.

    

     I'm sure that Dan will pick up on anything  important that I
    forgot.

    

    boB

    

    

    
       
      I'm working on
            developing a detailed commissioning procedure. Detailed yet
            generic. There will be at least two versions for inverters.
            One for string and one for central. In my book, central
            inverters have re-combiners (standalone or integral) and
            string inverters don't. I'm trying to understand which functions are
            tested in the factory on every unit so I can avoid
            unnecessary duplication by the commissioning people.
       
      Thanks in advance for
            any light you can shed on the subject!
       
      Matt Lafferty
      
        
        From:
          re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
          [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On
            Behalf Of Exeltech

          Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 10:04 AM

          To: RE-wrenches

          Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Inverter 1741 Listing
          Process

        

      
      
        
          
            Matt,

              

              The 5-minute delay is verified in the group of inverters
              sent to the test laboratory.  Then, as long as the
              software and hardware don't change, it's presumed the
              delay in all production units meets the value(s) measured
              in the tested units.

              

              An alteration in either hardware OR software can result in
              a unit being required to completely re-test (as Bob
              pointed out).  NRTLs get copies of the source code and can
              and do periodically compare their copy as submitted with
              the original test units to the software being programmed
              into the inverters during production to verify it's the
              same.

              

              NRTLs conduct unannounced "field audits" by simply showing
              up on site and randomly selecting various aspects of the
              product for verification -- including the software.

              

              The overall UL1741 certification process is extremely
              complex, very time consuming, and quite expensive.

              

              

              Dan

              

              

              

              --- On Fri, 10/8/10, boB Gudgel <boB at midnitesolar.com>
              wrote:

              

                From: boB Gudgel <boB at midnitesolar.com>

                Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Inverter 1741 Listing Process

                To: gilligan06 at gmail.com, "RE-wrenches"
                <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>

                Date: Friday, October 8, 2010, 9:26 PM

                

                On 10/8/2010 6:04 PM, Matt
                  Lafferty wrote:
                  
                    Hola Wrenches,
                     
                    Does anybody know off
                          the top of their head if the "5-minute-wait-to-interconnect"
                          function is tested on 100% of inverters
                          produced? (i.e. every single inverter is
                            tested with AC & DC within the start
                            parameters of the unit for at least 5
                            minutes)
                     
                    Thanks!
                     
                    Matt Lafferty
                  
                  

                  Good question.  I bet it's not 100% tested because if
                  the software does not

                  change, then they may just not wait the extra 5
                  minutes in order to save money on testing.

                  

                  Or, maybe they do a random sampling for this test.

                  

                  Theoretically, it shouldn't matter as long as the
                  software does not change

                  and the hardware is tested enough in other ways, like,
                  timers and clocks etc.

                  

                  BTW, Nowadays, there are two options for manufacturers
                  of grid interactive inverters....

                  

                  And the UL spec has gotten more stringent.

                  

                  One option  is that you have to have  the  code
                  (software) blessed by the NRTL in a separate process
                  (another UL specification, (UL 1998 –Software in
                  Programmable Components")

                  

                  OR, if they don't go for that option, then if software
                  changes need to be done to the inverter, the inverter
                  must (technically) go through the UL1741 listing
                  process all over again.

                  

                  boB
              
            
          
        
      
      

    
    

  

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