[RE-wrenches] Solar System Certification

Tue Dec 22 14:33:22 PST 2009

Todd,

I am sorry if I have upset you by posting this question. I do not post to the list very often, and mostly just follow all your conversations, as you all bring a wealth information to the discussion. Due to the fact that the particular issue primarily has to do with the beginning step of installing a PV System, I felt that wrenches was a more appropriate list than Markets. If this is an incorrect assumption, I apologize.

I mainly started this thread, because it was an interesting obstacle I had not yet come across, and thought others may have experienced this issue as well. By working for Eagle I end up dealing with a lot of different municipalities and Building Departments, that all seem to do things "their own way".

In regards to your question, I think that Nick described Eagle fairly well as a distributor. As far as profits, I have no idea as I do not get involved with costs of materials or jobs or who makes what $$$, although I assume that everyone involved is taken care of well enough that they are repeat customers.

In addition to providing a set of plans and a system design that is specifically tailored to their house and property, we also assist in getting the permit pulled, making sure that the installation goes correctly, file and/or finance the rebate, and provide follow up onsite technical support if anything should go wrong.

Since Eagle and the installing electrician are involved with follow up service, I guess we both carry the warranty. We do offer training courses for electricians who have little experience with solar, and show up onsite to help them through their first couple installations. Most of our customers do focus primarily on solar installations, so I don't know if that makes them glorified electricians or not.

Also, if there is something wrong with the system I design, or a code issue I have missed, it all comes back to me, and I stand behind my designs. I understand the type of warehouse packaged systems with no support you are talking about, and I don't think we are that type of company.

I am sorry I can not provide you with more specific information, but realistically I am just an employee that focuses on the engineering and required drawings for code compliant installations.

Brian C. White
Design Engineer - PV Systems

Eagle Roofing Products
120 North Auburn Street - Suite 212
Grass Valley, CA  95945
Phone: 530-273-2948
Cell: 530-575-5550
e-mail: brianw at eagleroofing.com <mailto:brianw at eagleroofing.com> 

________________________________

From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org on behalf of Nick Soleil
Sent: Tue 12/22/2009 8:39 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar System Certification

Hi Todd:
    Eagle Roofing is a roofing distributor and a solar distributor too.  Do you expect Conergy, Solar Depot, and AEE to install their own systems too.
    Otherwise, I agree with your point, the end-user gets better service when the sales company and installer are the same company.  I find most folks understand that.  I have installed systems for sales-only companies in the past, but I always double-check the design work, and often modify the designs to my liking.  In those cases, I charge by the job.  The sales companies usually want to pay less, but if they want quality installations, then they have to pay us for our experience.

Nick Soleil
Project Manager
Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC
PO Box 657
Petaluma, CA 94953
Cell: 707-321-2937
Office: 707-789-9537
Fax: 707-769-9037 

________________________________

From: Brian White <brianw at eagleroofing.com>
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>; RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Sent: Mon, December 21, 2009 2:12:54 PM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar System Certification

First of all, I think that our business model comes no where close to the norm of the solar world. Our customers come to us through roofing channels, meaning Eagle's primary focus is manufacturing and selling concrete roof tiles. So as we sell a re-roof or new roof for new construction, we offer the option of incorporating solar.

>From their, our customers can either use their own contractors, or we suggest one for them. We also offer engineering as a line item option with a solar system. They can either use our provided engineering or produce their own. Although the majority take advantage of our in house engineering.

Brian C. White
Design Engineer - PV Systems

Eagle Roofing Products
120 North Auburn Street - Suite 212
Grass Valley, CA  95945
Phone: 530-273-2948
Cell: 530-575-5550
e-mail: brianw at eagleroofing.com <mailto:brianw at eagleroofing.com> 

________________________________

From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org on behalf of toddcory at finestplanet.com
Sent: Mon 12/21/2009 1:12 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar System Certification

So you can get others to install your designs? I would never touch materials I do not sell, or install a system I did not design... and I am amazed anyone would.

Todd

On Monday, December 21, 2009 12:56pm, "Brian White" <brianw at eagleroofing.com> said:

> Thanks to all who have posted.
> 
> To answer a couple of questions that have been posted.
> 
> Eagle Roofing does not have a contractor's license, as we do not perform the
> installation. We work with electrical contractors and roofing contractors in the
> area of a given project. Our services do include the design and documentation of
> the system, and "help" our partners pull the permit.
> 
> We have tried several of the approaches mentioned here, i.e. the system consist of
> certified products, and why do we have to re-test certified products, etc.
> However, this plan checker seems very firm on their position. Pressing further, we
> asked them to provide the criteria for the test they are requesting, and amazingly
> enough they could not produce any. They also said that just a wet stamp of the
> plans would not suffice.
> 
> We have completed previous installations in this local within the last year and
> were not faced with this requirement, even though it was originally adopted in
> 2007.
> 
> The following is a verbal description of what they want done;
> 
> He said that a registered electrical engineer has to be onsite when the
> installation of this system is completed. This engineer has to test the power
> (wattage) and load (amps) to make sure that the output is within the parameters of
> which this system is design for, and finally this person has to write a report
> with his PE stamp to certify that this system is working properly.
> 
> We did get as far as to get him to agree that it did not seem relevant, as he said
> he was going to look into the ordinance a little further and might make some
> revisions to it. However, for now, he won't budge on this ordinance because it's
> been in the city code before he came on board.
> 
> Also, some additional system information. 3 strings of 38 PV Tiles (Suntech 50
> Watt BIPV Roof Tile) with one PV Powered 4800 Watt inverter in a grid tied set up.
> Not exactly a complex system.
> 
> I will provide additional updates as I get them.
> 
> Thanks again,
> Brian C. White
> Design Engineer - PV Systems
> 
> Eagle Roofing Products
> 120 North Auburn Street - Suite 212
> Grass Valley, CA 95945
> Phone: 530-273-2948
> Cell: 530-575-5550
> e-mail: brianw at eagleroofing.com <mailto:brianw at eagleroofing.com>
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org on behalf of William Miller
> Sent: Fri 12/18/2009 3:05 PM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar System Certification
> 
> 
> Brian:
> 
> I looked up the Municipal Codes
> (http://www.ci.yorba-linda.ca.us/~ci26/how-do-i/get/get-city-codes) and this
> requirement is right in there. I hope you have a provision in your contract that
> allows for additional billing for unanticipated engineering fees. Everyone
> should. If you need language, contact me off line.
> 
> Fortunately I have never experienced anything like this. This requirement sounds
> unreasonable. It is sort of like asking an air conditioning contractor to have
> the air conditioning unit tested in the field. Individual solar components are
> listed. The combining of the components is facilitated by the manufacturers
> specifications and on-line sizing tools. Having said that, an amateur can easily
> screw the design and installation of even the most simple grid-tie system. This
> provision is the ultimate consumer protection. It sounds onerous at first but
> does have a benefit.
> 
> Good luck, and give us a hint how much this certification costs.
> 
> William Miller
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At 01:31 PM 12/18/2009, you wrote:
> 
> 
> I am curious if any of you have had to deal with this issue before.
> 
> The following is an item we got back from the City of Yorba Linda for a Plan
> Check correction:
> 
> 
> All electrical solar systems shall be tested and approved by a California
> Registered Electrical Engineer. The engineer shall furnish a report stating
> their name, registration number, its date of expiration, address where the
> testing occurred and the dates of testing and approval. Such report shall be
> presented to the City inspector for approval at the time of final inspection. 
> (YLMC 15.28.020) Note on the plans.
> 
> All experiences and suggestion are appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> Best Regards,
> Brian C. White
> Design Engineer - PV Systems
> 
> Eagle Roofing Products
> 120 North Auburn Street - Suite 212
> Grass Valley, CA 95945
> Phone: 530-273-2948
> Cell: 530-575-5550
> e-mail: brianw at eagleroofing.com <mailto:brianw at eagleroofing.com>
> 
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