[RE-wrenches] Equipment shortages, long lead times?

[Keith Cronin]

Jay

I also agree that the training/position on this subject matter should be two separate certifications. Let me give some examples:

Last year in Hawaii, we have reported approximately 11mW's of PV that went in. In speaking to the utility folks, less than 1% had any batteries associated with the systems.
In polling fellow integrators, it became clear that it is probably less than 1% have batteries. The folks that are doing batteries here are a different subset. Sure they might be on grid and want 4 8D's tied to their Outback (like me), but there are others that live in remote areas that IMHO, take more of an active power plant management role.

When you look at the small integrators company makeup- it is probably less than 10 people. They might do a majority of their work in an semi urban environment where there is a competitive nature to the business and clients are getting multiple quotes for 2-5kW systems that are grid tie only, as the end users goal is to leverage incentives and stabilize their operating expenses while simultaneously going green.

We are all seeing new folks entering this space and when you are operating a business, taking the time to just teach the fundamentals about anything grid tie, from 690-64B to string sizing is alot to manage. Keeping clients, inspectors and utility representatives content requires alot of finesse, as well as growing your people.

Also, I believe the battery type client really needs a service and repair type of shop company to work with. Anyone on this list knows their first experiences with batteries and the multiple trips to the site as well as the hours you have put in learning about C rates of charge for a particular battery manu and how it correlates to a particular charge controller. Most new companies or companies that are focused on the urban solar business model perhaps haven't had the reason or taken the time to learn. Or, they might have done 1 last year and the tech they trained moved on to another opportunity.

So, if an integrator gets a call to provide a proposal for a battery based system they have a few options: have the client referred to a Bob-O, who is a specialist in this genre; get trained before the installation and be upfront with the client that this is a learning experience and they will be there for the client when the pull the battery bank down and it trips the main. Hopefully they encouraged the client to have a maintenance agreement so you can come out to check the batteries and system, or in some ways you are doing yourself and the end user a disservice, as these systems need TLC. Anyone that has been around for a while has gotten the call to come inspect a system that is wounded. When we arrive we start to make judgements visually and then dig into the situation like a surgeon. We can assess the situation and leave the client with options. This has value in the eye of the integrator who wants to have this type of client in their roster. 

I've found a few good battery/pv folks in the boating world here. They truly understand state of charge/amp hours, but they don't necessarily know much about AC wiring and the NEC.

Clearly, the integrator that does battery based systems needs to have specialists on the team to support this part of the business, as trying to bluff your way through it can cause more harm than good. Hopefully if the integrator enters uncharted territory, they make a choice to either learn or hand off the project to someone that has the experience.

Thanks for the opportunity to testify~

Keith






________________________________
From: jay peltz <jay at asis.com>
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Sent: Tue, November 24, 2009 6:04:07 AM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Equipment shortages, long lead times?

At the risk of stirring the hornets nest, I disagree with NABCEP's stance of this issue.

I think for their own survival and best interest they need to specialize.
Battery based and batteryless are really different critters.
And that the present and future of the industry is hugely weighted to the batteryless systems it makes perfect sense to have two different sections.

Since NABCEP already has 2 tests, they can add a third.  
This is a new revenue stream for NABCEP.

And thanks Daryl for the idea of the transmission repair person.  I got to thinking and yes in the old days, folks repaired both, and many mechanics will still try their hands at repairing standards, but the automatics have gotten very very complex needing very special tools and training such that that someone who fixes automatics might be able to fix a standard, but it doesn't go the other way.

My 2 cents,

jay

peltz power


On Nov 23, 2009, at 11:57 AM, penobscotsolar at midmaine.com wrote:

> Here, here Bob-O.
>   We, too, have seen no decrease in our off grid market as well. It is
> rapidly becoming a specialized field here in Maine.(not talking about
> you, Tump) Even our largest competitor is now sending off grid business
> to us as they have had too many problems training competent installers
> who understand the minutea(?) of battery physiology, proper gen
> charging, etc. and just want to do the wam bam straight grid tie
> systems. I appreciate NABCEP's (and your) insistence on continuing to
> require off grid knowledge in order to be certified. Anything less
> would be like certifying a mechanic who only knows about standard
> transmissions in transmission repair. Your logic in continuing to
> insist on battery based knowledge is important to our field. Thanks.
> 
> Daryl
> 

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