[RE-wrenches] Outback-Honda Sync problem

[drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org]

In the post below, from Christopher Freitas on 3/23/06, he was having good
results using the Honda 3000 and 6000 watt inverter generators on Outback
the grid tie inverters.   He did not recommend using the EU 2000 because
it might not be large enough to hold up loads and charge batteries.  The
2000 EU is what my customer had, so we did not try to feed loads, just to
charge batteries at a low charge rate.  The unit would not stay connected.

Using an Iota charger, or other type, is the backup plan, but it adds
another expense, and the Iota is not UL listed.  It would be best if the
system would work as designed.

Thanks to all who have given input.  Your expert advice is very much
appreciated.

Drake


Christopher Freitas --- OutBack Power cfreitas at outbackpower.com
Thu Mar 23 10:38:52 PST 2006


William, Todd, John and all -

We just happen to be working on the generator support and grid-tie
generator compatibility at this very time - currently testing a 5kW Onan
diesel (non-inverter/generator) and a couple of other smaller and larger
generators as well.  Its all coming along pretty well.

We have seen good results with the 3000 watt and 7000 watt Honda
inverter/generators with our grid-tie units - although you have to turn
off the generator's eco-throttle system of course.  I have not had a
chance to try our grid-tie inverters with the 2000 watt unit (which I
advise avoiding as the 3000 will provide enough power to run loads and
still battery charge and the 3000W is also about three times the weight
(better built) of the 2000 watt unit and has a bigger gas tank (3.4G vs
1.1G) as well).  The EU2000i is actually rated 1600W and the EU3000iS
rated 2800W.  The EU3000iS also has electric start - but three wire and
no automatic choke.

Unfortunately, changes to the inverter's software takes a lot of time to
complete - particularly on a grid-tie inverter as any new code needs to
be retested with UL/ETL and also recertified for the CEC efficiency.

Our goals also include merging the grid-tie and off-grid versions back
into a single model and to allow for larger grid-tie systems than the
current limitation of only two inverters in a classic only stack system
- as well as three phase with multiple units per phase.  We are making
good progress on all of this - just takes lots of time to tweek and test
- and we will be doing a full beta test cycle on the new software if you
are interested in participating.

We will offer a program to upgrade all of the existing products to the
new software version - so there will be a way to upgrade / expand
systems already installed.

The new software does not solve the issue of the OutBack's having only a
single AC input - but we have some new ideas there as well on how to
handle this.


At 10:06 AM 10/31/2009, you wrote:

Drake I think the cause of your problems are NOT the generator but our, as
installers a lack of accurate information.
I believe & I would hope that someone at OB will chime in here is....
A GFVX inverter( operative word here is Grid tied) will work w/ a generator
NOT in that way you are trying to use it BUT using the controls of the OB to
start a large enough generator which can in turn supply the loads of the
house NOT to supply charging or AC source thru the "pass thru" relay of the
OB.
Batteries enough to sustain brief power outages then on low battery voltage
the inverter will command the generator to start. Once the AC source is
supplied from the gen the transfer switch (utility/gen) will move the loads
to the gen. The OB will NOT latch onto the gen source to charge batteries
until the utility is reconnected.
I have found products that will take the AC gen source & supply DC current
enough to power the loads & charge the batteries using the inverter but its
really not the best/ cost effective way.
Let me know if you need info on the DC power/battery charger supply. TUMP




-----Original Message-----
From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of
drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 9:57 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback-Honda Sync problem


Your replies are greatly appreciated.  On the testing, there were no loads
on the inverter, and I reduced the battery charging amperage to 5 amps.  I
went to do more testing, but the generator wouldn't start.  In my limited
experience with the Honda EU series, these are usually easy starting
machines.  Could this be a clue?

With cheap generators on Outback off grid inverters, I use the method of
connecting the generator at low amperage and slowly ramping the inverter
charge rate up from the mate, unit the combination is stable at the highest
charge rate.  Even if I could accomplish that with this system, it wouldn't
satisfy the customer.

>From previous posts on the list, it appeared that these generators have
been working well with Outback grid-tie inverters.  Am I mistaken in this?
Should I refund the customer for the transfer switch, or is the problem with
his generator?

Will anyone attest to creating reliable systems with this combination, or
should we avoid using any generator with the on grid Outbacks?

Thanks,

Drake


_______________________________________________