[RE-wrenches] Starting 3/4 Sub Pump (was Power Factor)

[Darryl Thayer]

Hi all
When trying to run the pump with the inverter, make the following measurements.  
DC amps, and DC volts to the inverter, multiply by about 0.9, this is the true power.  Then measure at the same time the AC volts and the AC amps. this it the apparent power.  Power factor is the ratio of apparent power to true power.  

Also if the AC current exceeds the inverter rating, you will know.  Use a meter with surge capability, If the surge is to high the inverter may not restore voltage, kind of lock up until it reaches overload.  

Darryl
--- On Thu, 7/30/09, Matt <solarone at charter.net> wrote:

> From: Matt <solarone at charter.net>
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Starting 3/4 Sub Pump (was Power Factor)
> To: "RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 7:38 PM
> Geeze,
> Are the PF meters available separately without having to
> replace a perfectly fine 337?
> 
> Matt
> ---- boB Gudgel <boB at midnitesolar.com>
> wrote: 
> > Allan Sindelar wrote:
> > > Matt and boB,
> > > This is only somewhat relevant, but may help:
> > > A few days ago, on initial bootup of a new system
> with a Magnum MS4024AE, we
> > > easily ran a 1HP submersible at nearly 500' head
> plus pressurizing (single
> > > pump system). However, this was a Grundfos SQ, so
> the soft-start made it
> > > much easier. Steady draw was about 88ADC at 25
> VDC, or around 2200 watts. I
> > > had cautioned the client that this combination
> wasn't certain to work,
> > > although I expected that it would. 
> > >
> > > Allan Sindelar
> > >   
> > Hmmmm....  If this is a submersible pump, how
> would you really know it 
> > was trying to start or not ?
> > Maybe he just can't hear it trying to start, as short
> as that try might be ?
> > 
> > Yeah, I'd check the current and voltage when trying to
> start off the 
> > inverter and also the generator
> > just for a reference point.   Sounds
> like a great use of a PF meter 
> > actually.
> > 
> > boB
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > Allan at positiveenergysolar.com
> > > NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer
> > > EE98J Journeyman Electrician
> > > Positive Energy, Inc.
> > > 3201 Calle Marie
> > > Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507
> > > 505 424-1112
> > > www.positiveenergysolar.com
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
> > > [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org]
> On Behalf Of boB Gudgel
> > > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 4:45 PM
> > > To: Matt
> > > Cc: RE-wrenches
> > > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Power Factor
> > >
> > > Matt wrote:
> > >   
> > >> Possibly a PF question, or maybe one for
> Magnum - boB,
> > >>
> > >> One of the guys at work is (almost) running a
> 3/4 hp sub pump with a Magna
> > >>     
> > > AE 48. Or rather, he isn't. According to him when
> he first fired it up, it
> > > operated the pump just fine. The next time he
> tried, though. he couldn't
> > > even get a buzz out of the starter. No workee.
> > >   
> > >>   
> > >>     
> > > Sounds kind of like a "pump is broken or worn
> out" problem, doesn't it ?
> > >
> > > If there is enough ac voltage applied to the
> pump, the it should do 
> > > ~something~, or lights should dim or some
> > > kind of sign should show itself, wouldn't you
> think ?   Otherwise, I 
> > > would suspect it might be a surge problem.
> > >
> > > Is there a pilot light or something
> ?   Maybe a fuse blew or breaker 
> > > tripped somewhere ?   (when the
> pump went off?)
> > >
> > > Doesn't sound like a PF problem though...
> However,  since you mention 
> > > it, with loads that are not a 1.0 power factor,
> > > at least for displacement power factor, when
> reactive phase shift is 
> > > involved, the inverter must be able to "sink"
> current
> > > from the stored reactive energy as well as be a
> source to the motor.   
> > > The Magnum does that just fine, as does any
> other
> > > decent inverter.
> > >
> > > Maybe Tony, Eldon or Gary at Magnum has seen this
> before ?    425-353-8833
> > >
> > > boB
> > >
> > >
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