[RE-wrenches] Concorde PVX series

Mon Nov 30 05:21:30 PST 2009

Conrad,

We deal with researchers that have unmanned sites that are visited once or
twice a year.  They were using Concordes when we got in the business and
swore by them so we saw no reason to change.  If they are charged properly
they will give many years of good service and I'm not talking about in
standby systems.

It's true your batteries are probably NG now but they are a very good
battery IMO which is based on over 1000 sold.  If you have a client that
can not or will not check the sp.gr. or water flooded cells then Concordes
are a good solution, my opinion.

As far as longevity, battery life is all about the # of  and depth of
discharge (DOD) cycles.  According to their specs they're good for 1000
cycles at 50% DOD or about 1800 at 30% DOD.

You can download their tech manual at http://www.sunxtender.com/

Best,

Greg Egan
greg at remotepowerinc.com

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: concord batteries (Walt Ratterman)
>    2. Re: NABCEP - grid tie---Off grid (Dave Click)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 19:48:34 -0800
> From: "Walt Ratterman" <wratterman at sunenergypower.com>
> To: "'RE-wrenches'" <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] concord batteries
> Message-ID: <002101ca7170$06a73e20$13f5ba60$@com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> It seems you are saying that the batteries are 12V batteries. And, as
> there
> are 40 of them, this would indicate you have about 10 parallel strings.
> It
> would have been difficult to keep this battery bank properly charged even
> if
> the charging parameters were appropriate.
>
>
>
> One string is best, two is great also.three is maybe not so bad...then
> start
> sliding down the hill..
>
>
>
> Walt
>
> SunEnergy Power Int'l
>
>
>
> From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Conrad
> Geyser
> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 5:49 PM
> To: 'RE-wrenches'
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] concord batteries
>
>
>
> In the vein of us on grid folks who's heads spin when the off grid folks
> start talking about charge programming and gen set start up parameters.
>
>
>
> I am servicing an orphaned 48 V off grid system that is only 1 1/2 years
> old, with 40 Concorde Sun Extender batteries, which are for the most part,
> shot (about half of them under 10V after a generator EQ charge).  I'm sure
> the batteries have been abused at least after the point that someone
> lowered
> the generator start voltage to 40V.  We're still doing fact finding on the
> charge parameters for the PV and wind, but I'm wondering if there is
> anyone
> that has an opinion on the Concorde batteries.
>
>
>
> And at least at this point, I'm glad I had to study for some off grid
> questions on the NABCEP test, not to mention the conversations on this
> list.
> : >
>
>
>
> Conrad
>
> Cotuit Solar
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   _____
>
> From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Bob-O
> Schultze
> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 9:59 AM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Nabcep - grid tie---Off grid
>
>
>
> William,
>
> Nice to meet you -however briefly- at the Solar Zoo in Anaheim.
>
> If you don't see the value in being NABCEP certified, then you shouldn't
> bother with it. If your state- as more than a few have- decides to
> recognize
> it in some way that affects your pocket, then you'll likely change your
> mind
> PDQ. I've personally gotten one or two jobs that I know about because I
> was
> Certified and the other bidder was not, but our bids were very close in
> price. Low-ballers, like head lice, are just a nasty fact of life.
>
> While I generally agree with you on your point #2, it varies a lot state
> to
> state. I'm licensed in CA and OR. While I understand the rules in CA are
> changing, enforcement is, and has always been, a joke. In OR, you need a
> 4000 hour apprenticeship AND 256 hours of general electrical classroom
> time
> to get a Renewable Energy license. A general journeyman license is twice
> that. I've had inspectors come to our job site and check that everyone is
> licensed. In OR, you don't lay hands on a wire without a license. Ever
> hear
> of the like in CA? Maybe in the big cities, but nowhere else.
>
> We're totally on the same page about the IBEW. If you understand that
> their
> goal is total domination of the electrical trade everywhere, a lot of how
> they operate makes sense. I'm a pro-Union kinda guy as a rule, but, like
> religion, too much of a thing is way worse than none.
>
> As to experience with EMT and the like, again it varies state to state and
> certainly region to region. In this neck of the woods, if you can't bend
> an
> offset or saddle bend, you are either a new apprentice or unemployed.
>
> Best, Bob-O
>
>
>
> On Nov 24, 2009, at 11:48 PM, William Miller wrote:
>
>
>
> Friends:
>
> I'd like to make two brief points on the training/NABCEP debate:
>
> 1. If I thought NABCEP certification would get me one more job I'd
> normally
> lose to a low-ball bidder, I'd be inclined to sit for the test, but it
> won't.
>
> 2. Most solar electric installers could not be considered electricians.
> Until they learn the trade, they are not qualified to install the most
> basic
> grid tie system.  Conversely, many electricians with the most basic
> electrical skills think they know all that needs to be known to design and
> install solar-electric.  Wrong again.
>
> I don't support the IBEW concept of taking over the solar industry by
> force,
> but I do respect their concept of actually encouraging well rounded
> electrician's skills.  How many solar installers can actually lay an
> offset
> into a stick of EMT?  Not many.  Most are glorified stereo installers,
> plugging and praying.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> William Miller
>
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 07:44:04 -0500
> From: Dave Click <daveclick at fsec.ucf.edu>
> To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP - grid tie---Off grid
> Message-ID: <4B13BE14.90806 at fsec.ucf.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>  > Speaking of IBEW, how
>  > about the installation done in Dorchester, Ma., do you mount your
> arrays
>  > vertically?
>
> That (relatively small--5.4kW) array was installed vertically to improve
> its visibility from I-93. It was understood that vertical PV facing
> somewhat SE wouldn't have been as efficient as a 30 degree slope facing
> south, but visibility was more important than increasing the energy
> production by $60/yr.
>
> DKC
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP - grid tie---Off grid
> From: Tump <tump at hughes.net>
> To: 'RE-wrenches' <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Date: 2009/11/26 10:03
>
>> Having worked for many years educating my clients, legislators and other
>> officials of the value of a NABCEP certification,NABCEP IS important to
>> me. I have invested many hours working w/ the early supporters,
>> developing  a national certification program which morphed into the
>> NABCEP program. I also work on various NABCEP committees working to
>> insure NABCEP,the test & the test questions are relevant AND continue to
>> address the real world of PV installations I personally find your lack
>> of support for the NABCEP certification undermining.
>> Recently while developing new test questions for /_both on & off grid
>> applications_/, myself & the installers working w/ NABCEP, the testing
>> lab & some other HIGHLY qualified individuals got into a row about how
>> tough we were making the entry level questions. "This isn't what those
>> kids will know". The installers argued that NABCEP is the best
>> benchmark & the test was a method of helping our industry weed out those
>> people that want a easy transition into our/your solar world. We were
>> finally able to convince the dissenters that the tough questions WERE
>> the right way to go.
>> I think that many folks see the NABCEP program "a way in",the actual
>> certification test is NOT an easy.
>> It is true that NOTHING will prevent some low balling jerk (NABCEP
>> certified or not) from getting the job.
>> There are those of us who see the value in the certification, while the
>> St. of Maine sees it (the NABCEP test) as too tough a test so what did
>> they do? They have developed  one of their own tests,something that
>> allows very poor quality of work to be accepted for rebate funds, (some
>> of it performed by IBEW & licensed electricians). Speaking of IBEW, how
>> about the installation done in Dorchester, Ma., do you mount your arrays
>> vertically?
>>  Yeah I loose jobs too, because I charge a competitive rate,install a
>> quality a product,value my insurance, both health & liability.I
>> also value my reputation as someone that is considered "one of the
>> better installers" in the state where I live & work!
>> There are many of us that have worked to improve the value of the
>> NABCEP program, you may have seen my personal attack & praise of the
>> NABCEP program.
>> I find presently that the increasing awareness of the NABCEP program
>> comforting,BUT, I too find the lack of support from the industry & some
>> States frustrating.
>> Certification is NOT for everyone, its expensive & time consuming but w/
>> continued interest from folks that may be on the fence & the continuing
>> hard work marketing the certification program "as the one to have", we
>> will continue to see the quality minded customer looking for that NABCEP
>> certification.
>> Please review some of the questions on the test, perhaps one of these
>> days you too will see the value of NABCEP & become one of the proud,
>> frustrated NABCEP certificate holders.
>> Were you also someone that said that computers were too costly and a
>> waste of time?
>> OK I've gotta go & saddle bend up my horse & ride off to turkey
>> land.......
>>
>>     *Tump at swnl.net* <mailto:Tump at swnl.net>        _*www.SWNL.net*
>> <http://www.swnl.net/>_
>>            Solarwinds Northernlights
>> */   Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California
>>      Me.# 207-832-7574  Cl.#  610-517-8401/*
>>
>> /*                          Blair "TUMP" May*/
>> */      ********  MAINE'S CHARTER ********
>>           _  NABCEP    "Certified PV Installer"_/**/_
>> _
>>       ********  MAINE'S CHARTER ********
>>    /**/_Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"
>> _   /*
>> */  /*
>>
>>     -----Original Message-----
>>     *From:* re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>     [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of
>>     *William Miller
>>     *Sent:* Wednesday, November 25, 2009 2:48 AM
>>     *To:* RE-wrenches
>>     *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Nabcep - grid tie---Off grid
>>
>>     Friends:
>>
>>     I'd like to make two brief points on the training/NABCEP debate:
>>
>>     1. If I thought NABCEP certification would get me one more job I'd
>>     normally lose to a low-ball bidder, I'd be inclined to sit for the
>>     test, but it won't.
>>
>>     2. Most solar electric installers could not be considered
>>     electricians.  Until they learn the trade, they are not qualified to
>>     install the most basic grid tie system.  Conversely, many
>>     electricians with the most basic electrical skills think they know
>>     all that needs to be known to design and install solar-electric.
>>     Wrong again.
>>
>>     I don't support the IBEW concept of taking over the solar industry
>>     by force, but I do respect their concept of actually encouraging
>>     well rounded electrician's skills.  How many solar installers can
>>     actually lay an offset into a stick of EMT?  Not many.  Most are
>>     glorified stereo installers, plugging and praying.
>>
>>     Respectfully,
>>
>>     William Miller
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
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