[RE-wrenches] More on AC coupling - SI and SB

Matt solarone at charter.net
Tue Dec 2 15:24:08 PST 2008 

Tump,

As luck would have it, all my contact business cards are at my home office - 300 miles away from where I am at the moment. I would use the   info at SMA-america.com   general address until I get back and dig up a better one. We are sending a few guys over to the factory in Germany to further push our point of view, :-)

Matt T

---- Tump <tump at hughes.net> wrote: 
> Hey Matt, put their address here, so we ALL can forward this message to the
> right folks @ SMA!
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Matt Tritt
> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 7:31 PM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] More on AC coupling - SI and SB
> 
> 
> Geoff,
> 
> SMA suggests using an OutBack Autoformer. Yes, I know it sounds weird to
> suggest using a competitors product, but this is not the only weirdness when
> using the 60 Hz SI system! They also suggest using the Flexware DC breaker
> box, as there is really nothing they make that accomplishes the same thing,
> at such a low cost. Low is subjective, I suppose.
> 
> I asked a pair of the SMA engineers from Germany about the possibility of
> coming out with a 240 60 Hz version (pleaded is more like it) to help the
> long suffering American AE sector, and the answer was just what has been
> suggested by our Scottish bretheren: If the market is large enough to
> warrant the UL listing procedure, and if the market will bear a slightly
> higher price tag, they will do it. I would recommned that each and every one
> of us that would like to have the option of somehting as great as this
> system has to offer, PLEASE email, phone and write to SMA Amerika (ho ho ho)
> to express your wishes. It can't hurt!
> 
> Matt T
> 
> Geoff Greenfield wrote: 
> 
> Matt-
> 
>  
> 
> What is your prefered/recomended way to address the 240 VAC SB series (we
> typically dont want to use a bunch of 700s or 1800s) and the 120 VAC SI
> series?  We used a pair of Outback PSX-240s but that was extra work/cost.
> Other (larger) transformers? Torroid coil? Eaton? I'm surprised SMA doesnt
> have a nice interface worked out for the North American market...
> 
>  
> 
> Also wrenches... if you go down this route, invest the time ahead of time on
> learning/preping for the set up etc for SI in this application.  It is not
> out of the box ready to go, but involves a software upgrade, laptops and the
> right patch cord (an issue if you are 5 hours away...).
> 
> 
> 
> For a brighter energy future,
> 
> Geoff Greenfield
> Founder and CEO
> Third Sun Solar & Wind Power Ltd.
> 340 West State Street, Unit 25
> Athens, OH 45701
> 
> 740.597.3111     Fax 740.597.1548
> www.Third-Sun.com
> 
> Clean Energy - Expertly Installed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- "Tump"  <mailto:tump at hughes.net> <tump at hughes.net> wrote: 
> > 
> Matt, I have long been interested in installing the SMA SI & SBs but I have
> a VERY tough time selling $9ks worth of inverters, just to get things
> started.
> In the system below I would not of hesitated in installing the SMA SI & SB!
> I too agree that w/this type of scenario described below, I  would have
> given quite a bit of thought to using the SMAs. Can't beat the battery
> charging, no charge controllers & expandability.
>  Please if there is someone out there that has had experience w/ the SMA SI
> & SB let us know if it is all that it is cracked up to be!
> With passport in hand, I offer my help if someone out there  has a large
> system like this, that will be using the SI & SB/WB  type of set up.
> TUMP
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Matt Tritt
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 9:21 PM
> > To: RE-wrenches
> > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] More on AC coupling
> > 
> I am curious as to why OutBacks were used for this system instead of using
> SunnyIslands and SunnyBoys? From what I can tell about the SI system,
> virtually no aspect of battery charging, auto gen-start/stop, and
> interactive inverter control has been overlooked - or remains to be
> engineered in the field by the installer. Because SunnyIslands have the
> ability to "talk" to Sunny (or Windy)Boys, excess energy is taken care of by
> "integrated load shedding" - no need for multiple relays, dumpoads and
> voltage sensors. :-) The only limitation to these systems (and only in 60 Hz
> land) is a maximum of 20 kW single, and 15 kW three phase per autonomous
> load. I really like the flexibility of being able to connect all AC inputs
> on the same line, as well as having the option to do direct battery charging
> from a DC source (as long as you use a shunt to measure current).
> > I know this doesn't answer your questions, but for similar applications in
> the future it would be good to take a close look at the SunnyIsland system.
> They're cool.
> > Matt T
> > Mark Dickson wrote: 
> 
> > 
> 
> Hello Wrenches,
> 
> On the heels of the previous thread:
> 
> We just got finished installing a system that utilizes an Outback Quad stack
> and a 5.2kW array coupled to the AC panel via a Fronius IG5100--due to a
> long home-run.  The VFX's are wired into the home in their traditional
> manner, providing the "grid" for the Fronius.  As the solar comes in, excess
> power not used in the home back feeds the batteries through the VFX's.  I
> have a series of relays operating dump loads and finally a power cut-off for
> when the batteries reach critical level.  We installed the system yesterday
> and turned it on for a test run (then back off to power it up in 2009 for
> the ITC's)-it worked great!
> 
> 
> 
> I have a couple questions for you all:
> 
> *	Seems how we are back feeding the inverters and forfeiting their
> charge control, where would you set the dump loads to kick on? 
> 
> 
> *	For now I have them set at: 1st load to kick on at float voltages,
> 2nd to kick on at bulk voltages and 3rd to kick the solar power off at the
> EQ voltages.  Does this make sense?  The bank is made up of Rolls 4ks-25ps
> batteries. 
> 
> *	Following a recent discussion on the Wrenches list with a similar
> system:  Do I need to worry about back feeding the generator if it is runnin
> in the morning when the sun comes up?  Do I need a relay that will shut it
> down when solar comes on line? 
> 
> *	I plan on setting the Absorb and Float set times to a miimum.  Would
> you recommend this? 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your input!
> 
> 
> 
> Mark Dickson
> 
> Oasis Montana Inc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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