[RE-wrenches] More on AC coupling

Matt Tritt solarone at charter.net
Wed Nov 26 16:08:38 PST 2008


Jay,

Nope. We are stuck with just what they are offering in the US market - 
maximum of 4 units in single phase and 3 in three phase. A bummer for 
sure, considering what is possible in the 50 Hz version!

Matt T

jay peltz wrote:

> Hi Dana,
>
> So is the issue that any 120v 60 hz  units are all the US versions, or 
> do they have 120v 60 hz international versions ( probably non UL)?
>
> My asking is that I've got some large projects in Baja that could use 
> full feature and larger stacking than the US version.
>
> thanks,
>
> jay
>
> peltz power
> On Nov 26, 2008, at 1:32 PM, Dana Brandt wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the report, Steve. I'm also a huge fan of the European SI. 
>> We need to be careful when we start to compare operations across the 
>> ocean. The US version of the SI is a bit different from the European 
>> version. SMA in Germany decided that the full-featured SI would be 
>> too expensive for the US market, so they sent us a stripped down, 
>> cheaper version. The US version still has some nice features, but it 
>> has some limitations when compared to the full-featured European 
>> version. One of the brilliant aspects of the full-featured SI is the 
>> multi-master operation. I wrote a little bit on the SI for AC 
>> minigrids and the multi-master operation in HP 109 - Oct/Nov 2005. 
>> It's frustrating to me that SMA hasn't UL listed a full-featured SI 
>> for us in the States, but they must figure it doesn't make financial 
>> sense for them.
>>
>> Dana
>>
>> -- 
>> Dana Brandt
>> Ecotech Energy Systems, LLC
>> www.ecotechenergy.com <http://www.ecotechenergy.com>
>> dana at ecotechenergy.com <mailto:dana at ecotechenergy.com>
>> 360.510.0433
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:20 AM, <Steve at windandsun.co.uk 
>> <mailto:Steve at windandsun.co.uk>> wrote:
>>
>>     Hi Tump,
>>
>>     Yes, the SI & SB system is all it's cracked up to be!
>>
>>     I'm not sure what is possible in the US but we've been running a 60kW
>>     Sunny Island system for over a year now which powers the Scottish
>>     Isle of Eigg and uses PV's with Sunny Boys, wind turbines with Windy
>>     Boys, 100kW hydro turbine & back-up diesel generation. Power is
>>     distributed around the island at 3.3kV three-phase using step-up &
>>     step-down transformers. The generation is located at various parts of
>>     the island (as are the houses & loads) with the Sunny Islands/Battery
>>     Store & back-up diesels roughly in the middle.
>>
>>     See our website for a full description:
>>     http://www.windandsun.co.uk/projects_eigg.htm
>>
>>     The Sunny Island inverters use 'Frequency Shift Power Control'  -
>>     variations in island grid frequency to communicate control signals to
>>     the generation sources and to bonus loads. If the batteries cannot
>>     absorb the renewable power being generated onto the network (if they
>>     are full, or the power generated exceeds the inverter/charger
>>     capacity), the Sunny Island inverters raise the system frequency.
>>     Sunny Boy & Windy Boy inverters are set to 'Off-Grid' mode to respond
>>     to this frequency rise and back off power being fed into the system.
>>     Other renewable generation (eg. hydro turbines) that is able to
>>     respond to this frequency rise to restrict their power output can
>>     also be incorporated in the system.
>>
>>     The raised frequency can also be used to trigger switching on of
>>     bonus loads when there is surplus renewable energy output.
>>
>>     The great thing about using this frequency shift for control is that
>>     no communication cabling, special circuits or dedicated switching is
>>     required and distance is no problem.
>>
>>     The other great thing about using the Sunny Island system is that it
>>     allows use of the Sunny Webbox for remote monitoring. This means
>>     every morning I can check on the internet to see how the system is
>>     performing, view state of charge of batteries, and dial in to change
>>     things if needed. Furthermore, several people can do this at once -
>>     eg. system owners & SMA technical support - so we can all look at
>>     what's been happening and discuss any events. (I'm sure you all know
>>     how useful this can be!)
>>
>>     As an example the attached Word document shows how the frequency
>>     shift works in practice (Hope it's Ok to send attachments on this
>>     list)
>>
>>     Regards
>>     Steve Wade
>>
>>
>>
>>     From:                   "Tump" <tump at hughes.net
>>     <mailto:tump at hughes.net>>
>>     To:                     "'RE-wrenches'"
>>     <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>     <mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>>
>>     Date sent:              Wed, 26 Nov 2008 08:33:38 -0500 Subject:
>>                    Re:
>>     [RE-wrenches] More on AC coupling Send reply to:        RE-wrenches
>>     <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>     <mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>>
>>      <mailto:re-wrenches-request at lists.re-
>>     <mailto:re-wrenches-request at lists.re->
>>     wrenches.org?subject=unsubscribe
>>     <http://wrenches.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>>      >
>>      <mailto:re-wrenches-request at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>     <mailto:re-wrenches-request at lists.re-wrenches.org>?subject=subscribe>
>>
>>     > Matt, I have long been interested in installing the SMA SI &
>>     SBs but
>>     > I have a VERY tough time selling $9ks worth of inverters, just to
>>     > get things started. In the system below I would not of hesitated in
>>     > installing the SMA SI & SB! I too agree that w/this type of
>>     scenario
>>     > described below, I  would have given quite a bit of thought to
>>     using
>>     > the SMAs. Can't beat the battery charging, no charge controllers &
>>     > expandability.
>>     >  Please if there is someone out there that has had experience
>>     w/ the
>>     >  SMA SI
>>     > & SB let us know if it is all that it is cracked up to be!
>>     > With passport in hand, I offer my help if someone out there  has a
>>     > large system like this, that will be using the SI & SB/WB  type of
>>     > set up. TUMP
>>     >
>>
>>     Wind & Sun Ltd., Humber Marsh, Stoke Prior,
>>     Leominster, Herefordshire, HR6 0NR.
>>     Web: www.windandsun.co.uk <http://www.windandsun.co.uk>
>>
>>     Tel: 01568 -760671
>>     Fax: 01568-760484
>>
>>     The latest edition of the Wind & Sun Design Guide & Catalogue is now
>>     available.
>>     This has 112 pages detailing our product range and is packed with
>>     information
>>     and advice about setting up or using a wind or solar electrical
>>     system.
>>     Price is £5.00 + £1.00 p&p.
>>
>>     Wind & Sun Ltd
>>     Registered in England & Wales, Company Number 3403803
>>     VAT Number GB 448 5458 14,
>>     Registered Office: Humber Marsh, Stoke Prior, Leominster,
>>     Herefordshire, HR6 0NR
>>
>>
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