[RE-wrenches] Hot Water Tanks

Ken Schaal ken at commonwealthsolar.com
Fri Aug 29 13:16:11 PDT 2008


Curious what total cost you figure for a 600 gal , insulated, unpressurized 
drainback, with output heat exchange capable of 100 gal ,at 3gal/min, of 120 
* F supply  water from 125* tank temp ?

Ken


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Karl Schwingel" <karl at northwindrenewable.com>
To: "RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 8:54 AM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Hot Water Tanks


> I've been using fibreglass tanks from Design Tanks in South dakota.
> a rather large variaty of sizes from 150 gal to 8000 gal.  you can get 
> fittings wherever you want, and can get sectional tanks (to 800 gal) for 
> assembly in small rooms (go thru a 28" door, assemble inside.)   good to 
> 180 F,
>
> could part of the problem be that the tarms might go to higher temps than 
> the EPDM can handle.  Just a thought, since flatplate panels are sort of 
> self temperature limiting.
>
> Karl Schwingel
> NABCEP certified Solar Thermal Installer
> Northwind Renewable Energy LLC
> Stevens Point, Wi.
>
>
>
>
> David Palumbo wrote:
>> Ken,
>>
>> Appear to be leaking from where heat exchangers contact bottom.
>> I do not know the specific tank temps as these were not my tanks, or
>> customers tanks.
>> No, sidewall penetrations.
>>
>> What tank lining material have you worked with? And how have they been
>> holding up?
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
>> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org]On Behalf Of Ken
>> Schaal
>> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 9:27 AM
>> To: RE-wrenches
>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Hot Water Tanks
>>
>>
>> Dave and others-
>>
>> Where and how do these leaks occur?
>> Stress at points of contact with bottom of copper coils?
>> Deterioration of the EPDM over time? at what average and maximum temps?
>> Sidewall penetrations below water level?
>>
>> Other issues?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Ken Schaal
>> CommonWealth Solar
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "David Palumbo" <dave at independentpowerllc.com>
>> To: "RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 9:00 AM
>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Hot Water Tanks
>>
>>
>>
>>> We have experience with STSS tank's. Lot's of Tarm's installed around 
>>> here
>>> in the past 10 years with that tank. Too many of the tanks leak after 8 
>>> to
>>> 10 years. That's why we decided to make our own tank.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org]On Behalf Of Jeff
>>> Blick
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 5:28 PM
>>> To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 1, Issue 95
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hiya Dave,
>>> We installed an STSS tank at a very large thermal system in Colorado 
>>> this
>>> past winter.  Check out their website, excellent product.  If nothing 
>>> else
>>> this will give you a jumping off point in your research efforts.  The
>>> website is stsscoinc.com.  Good to hear from you the other day...talk to
>>> you
>>> soon.......
>>>
>>>
>>> Jeff Blick
>>> PV installer
>>> Sunlight Solar Inc.
>>> 4 NW Franklin
>>> Bend, OR 97701
>>> direct: 541-306-4196
>>> fax: 541-322-1911
>>> jeff.blick at sunlightsolar.com
>>> www.sunlightsolar.com
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of
>>> re-wrenches-request at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 10:37 AM
>>> To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>> Subject: RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 1, Issue 95
>>>
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>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>>   1. Re: Hot water tank liner recommendations? (David Palumbo)
>>>   2. Re: Hot water tank liner recommendations? (Aaron Wellendorf)
>>>   3. Sunny Boy 6000U (marco)
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:25:53 -0400
>>> From: "David Palumbo" <dave at independentpowerllc.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Hot water tank liner recommendations?
>>> To: "RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <DJEBJJALDIMBNFIAMJMCKEEFDHAA.dave at independentpowerllc.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>
>>> Wrenches,
>>>
>>> Does anyone have a recommendation for a waterproof material to line a 
>>> 950
>>> gallon hot water storage tank? This insulated storage tank will have 
>>> heat
>>> exchange coils from a wood fired Tarm boiler as well as from SHW
>>> collectors.
>>> The liner must be able to withstand temperatures of 180 degrees F.
>>>
>>> We have had recommendations that include EDPM roofing membrane, and pond
>>> liner material http://www.firestonesp.com/pondgard.asp?sub=b1a and
>>> http://www.firestonebpe.com/lining/tech_data/tech_guidelines/_down/_en/T
>>> and
>>> http://www.firestonebpe.com/lining/tech_data/tech_guidelines/_down/_en/T
>>>
>>> Also, there is a concern that these tank liners have leaked in the past
>>> because the bottom of the tank liner was eventually penetrated due to 
>>> poor
>>> protection from the stress of having the copper heat exchanger coils
>>> sitting
>>> on it. I'm wondering if closed cell blue(or pink) board insulation would
>>> be
>>> a good choice for this duty. Will it hold up over the years at temps up 
>>> to
>>> 180F? As an alternative we could mill up some local Hemlock wood to
>>> separate
>>> the coils from the liner. Hemlock has been used for years to build 
>>> spring
>>> boxes out of, the reputation being "that as long as the wood stays wet 
>>> it
>>> will last for decades".
>>>
>>> And, is there a water treatment product that we should add to the 
>>> storage
>>> tank that will help protect the liner from breaking down over the years?
>>>
>>> Thanks for your time,
>>>
>>> Dave Palumbo
>>> Independent Power LLC
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 09:28:06 -0700
>>> From: "Aaron Wellendorf" <Aaron at stellarenergy.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Hot water tank liner recommendations?
>>> To: "RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <352B2228A318104184C8BD2F4B0996E3014D871D at dcpserver2.DCPS2.local>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> I would ask that you contact Stephen Rhoades at Burke Industries: (800)
>>> 669-7010 x406, www.burkeind.com. Burke Industries is manufacturer of
>>> Hypalon, one of the best single ply membrane roofing products. The same
>>> (or similar) products are used for reservoir liners, pond liners,
>>> waterproofing underground homes, etc. If you need to set something on
>>> the membrane such as a heat exchanger coil, then have a pre-made walkpad
>>> heat welded under the area of the coil. The walkpads are several times
>>> thicker than the membrane itself and are made for rough service areas.
>>> Stephen really helped me a lot on one of my large commercial projects.
>>>
>>> Aaron Wellendorf
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 3
>>> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 06:53:30 -1000
>>> From: "marco" <marco at pvthawaii.com>
>>> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sunny Boy 6000U
>>> To: "'RE-wrenches'" <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>>> Message-ID: <BDEAF5FED48B49C0AB18D28476C0CDB8 at marcohp>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> Amigos y amigas,
>>>
>>> I'm looking for a new or simply working old-style SMA SB 6000U.  Might
>>> anyone have one they'd be willing sell me?  If so, please contact me
>>> off-list.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> marco
>>>
>>> Marco Mangelsdorf, Ph.D., President
>>> Electrical Contractor License C-26351
>>> 69 Railroad Avenue, A-7
>>> Hilo, Hawai'i 96720
>>> (808) 969-3281, 934-7462 facsimile
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
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>>
>>
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>
> -- 
> Karl Schwingel
> NABCEP Certified Solar Thermal Installer
> NorthWind Renewable Energy LLC
>
> PO Box 723 Stevens Point, WI 54481
> Karl at Northwindre.com
> Cell: 715 209 0446
> Fax : 715 952 4501
>
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