Leaking L-feet and what kind of caulk [RE-wrenches]

Tue Jul 1 17:12:33 PDT 2008

I agree,NO or poor flashing it is just a nightmare waiting to happen!

 I also agree that we as an industry should begin to adopt & have standardize "proper" installation methods, BEFORE we have some idiot do it for us! I have lost jobs to folks that didn't flash due to the additional cost, but I enjoy my sleep!. Thanks Chris for the thorough research & presentation. 

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-----Original Message-----

From: Chris Anderson <canderson at borregosolar.com>

Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 15:15:26 

To: RE-wrenches at topica.com<RE-wrenches at topica.com>

Subject: RE: Leaking L-feet and what kind of caulk [RE-wrenches]

August,

I am confused on your assessment that Sika 1-a is compatible with comp shingles. What do you make of the last statement on the limitations page for Sikaflex 1-A?

-Do Not use in contact with bituminous / asphaltic materials.

While it has worked great for us in the past, once we read this, we contacted Sika Corp. and found that they do not authorize (and therefore warranty) their product to come into contact with asphaltic materials. Upon discovery, we re-visited our installation methods and further researched standards with the National Roofing Contractors Association. We found that the NRCA does not authorize the installation of non flashed penetrations.

The roofing industry depends on multiple entities to ensure quality, and therefore the NRCA Building Code Manual Second Edition. under the heading asphalt roofs states:

IBC: Section 1503.2.1 "Flashing shall be installed at gutters. . . . and around roof openings" . . .

 "Where flashing is of metal the metal shall be corrosion resistant with a thickness of not less than 0.019"

IRC: Section R903.2 "flashings shall be installed in such a manner so as to prevent moisture . . . . and other penetrations through the roof plane."

NFPA 5000:   Section 38.8 "Flashing and counter flashing shall be provided at all junctures of roofs and vertical surfaces at valleys and around all roof penetrations"

BOCA national building code: Section 1508.1 "Flashings are required at wall and roof intersections at gutters . . . .and around all roof openings".

SBC: Section 1503.2.1 (same BOCA 1508.1)

The following are industry manuals for "best practices" which are referred to in the roofing manufacturer's warranty

ARMA (Asphalt Roofing Manufacture's Association) see ARMA manual for steep roofs

SMACNA (Sheet Metal & Air Conditioning National Association) deals

NRCA (National Roofing Contractors Association) see NRCA's Best Practices & Guideline Manual

In order to protect ourselves from a potential negligence claim (for which the statute of limitations become forever as the necessity for flashed penetrations was mentioned repeatedly in both the codes books and "best practices" manuals) we made the switch to flashing all of our penetrations.

While there are many ways to skin a cat, I think that the PV industry as a whole needs move toward standardized construction techniques and the NRCA has clearly stated their best practices techniques.

Chris Anderson

Chief Operations Officer

NABCEP Certified Solar Installer

Borrego Solar Systems, Inc.

205 Industrial Avenue East

Lowell, MA 01852

Office - 978-513-2635

Cell - 603-732-2411

Fax -  617-209-1288

Borrego Solar is solving the world's energy problems by accelerating the adoption of renewable energy. Our people are committed to excellence in every aspect of solar design and construction.

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-----Original Message-----

From: August Goers [mailto:august at luminalt.com]

Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:10 AM

To: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Subject: Re: Leaking L-feet and what kind of caulk [RE-wrenches]

Troy -

Good question. We've never had a leak with probably about 40 L-feet and SikaFlex based systems installed. However, about two years ago we switched over to all fully flashed systems just to assure that leaks will never be a problem. A lot of research went into this decision. First off, the regular SikaFlex Construction sealant (like the type sold at Home Depot http://www.sikaconstruction.com/tds-cpd-SikaflexConstructionSealantCC-us.pdf ) is not compatible with asphalt products including comp shingles. Call Sika Corp if you want to hear it first hand. The sealant itself is great but it tends to loose its bond with the shingle over the years - I learned this from talking to many many roofers and checking up on our old systems. As long as it was generously applied into all the holes it will probably last a long time but I wouldn't use it again. Sikaflex 1-A 1-part polyurethane elastomeric sealant (http://www.sikacorp.com/tds-cpd-sikaflex1a-us.pdf ) is

 compatible with comp shingles and is extremely durable. We've also been using Geocel 2300 (http://www.geocelusa.com/php/oic/product.php?prdb_product_id=7 ) which has just about every positive attribute imaginable including a 50 year service life. Butyl rubber is a also really durable.

All that said, we either install standoffs with standard cone style flashings sealed with Sika 1-A or Geocel topped with a storm collar or use Quickmount flashings. Quickmounts are a bit pricey but really fast and low to the roof.

Oatey flashings tend to crack over the years and they only have a one year warranty.

Interested in hearing what other folks have to say, especially the old timers.

-August

 August Goers

Luminalt Energy Corporation

4000 Irving Street

San Francisco, CA 94122

Office:  415.564.7652

Mobile:  415.559.1525

august at luminalt.com

www.luminalt.com

----- Original Message ----

From: troy <taharvey at heliocentric.org>

To: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 6:37:07 PM

Subject: Leaking L-feet and what kind of caulk [RE-wrenches]

Hi Folks,

I wanted to survey, out many people have had problems with L-feet

stand-offs leaking over time?

While there are many newer and better looking stand-off products, the

prices can run as much as 10x the cost as good old L-feet. When in

high snow load areas with feet 2' on center, the cost of feet could

get out of control very fast. Any reasonable cost flashed methods that

you've come up with?

The second survey is Silicone or Urethane sealants, which is your

favorite for sealing lag screws and why?

-Troy Harvey

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