AGS problems with Outback system [RE-wrenches]

Wed Dec 5 15:43:07 PST 2007

Let me try and describe a situation with a gen start issue on a quad-stack installed by one of my customers.

First, the PV array is 6 k DC, but the installer mounted it on about a 10 degree angle - virtually useless in the Winter, but not the biggest problem. Here's what happens: The owner frequently runs the generator during the day if he thinks that the batteries are getting low and, if he does, the auto start fails to start the generator if called for during the night. He insists that this happens every time this sequence is repeated.

He also says that, even though he observes a "full" battery during the day, the batteries almost always get low enough soon after dark for the auto start to work - which it sometimes does. They report that they are unable to start the generator manually (from the Mate) without first unplugging it from the Hub if the genny has failed to start and the inverters shut down because of low voltage - always during the night.

After reading the recent posts on Mate problems, I'm wondering if this might be something similar since many trips to the site have failed to rectify the problem. I should also mention that this is the only long term gen start problem I've encountered that has gone on for so danged long!

Ideas anyone???

Matt T
---- Jason Lerner <wapalco at rockisland.com> wrote: 
> 
> Hello Jonah,
> 
> When Switching from FX 1 to FX 2 did you also switch the AGS port?   
> Switching the AGS port from 0 to 1  helped me on one Mate/gen problem.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Jason Lerner
> Waldron Power and LIght Co.
> 
> On Dec 4, 2007, at 12:07 PM, Jonah Liebes wrote:
> 
> >
> > You're onto something there Darryl. I thought the same thing except  
> > for two
> > problems with that theory: The mate/inverter sends the start signal  
> > based on
> > (in this situation) a minimum voltage threshold combined with a  
> > time span.
> > (If the voltage drops below the preset level for 24 hours, 2 hours,  
> > or 2
> > minutes the gen will start.) If the battery voltage is rising so  
> > quickly
> > during the charge cycle that the gen is signaled to shut down and  
> > then just
> > as quickly the voltage drops, what would signal the gen to restart?  
> > If your
> > answer is, "the gen re-started based on the low voltage set point" my
> > response is that it should have to wait at least 2 min to reach the  
> > 2 min
> > volt start set point. Instead it waits only 15-60 seconds.
> >
> > Even with that knowledge I decided to change the battery bank a few  
> > weeks
> > ago and the problem persists. I replaced the old VRLA batteries  
> > with brand
> > new, 12V sealed bats wired at 24VDC.
> >
> > In answer to your other questions: the FX is making the call to the  
> > gen to
> > start. Just for kicks, I switched inverters (there are 2) that send  
> > the
> > signal and nothing changed. I'm not sure about the AC Gen support.  
> > It is an
> > AC gen. From memory I thought outback had a DC gen support. ?>?
> >
> > Thanks for the help.
> >
> >
> > Jonah Liebes
> > NABCEPT Cert.
> > Regional Operations Director
> > www.heliopower.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Darryl Thayer [mailto:daryl_solar at yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 10:51 AM
> > To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
> > Subject: Re: AGS problems with Outback system [RE-wrenches]
> >
> >
> > Hi Jonah
> >
> > This is off the wall, but is it possible the batteries
> > are too small or too old or have lost there capacity?,
> >  Put a voltmeter on the battery set and look at what
> > happens when a low voltage call is made.  You may need
> > a Peak and Hold meter or a Max and Min meter to do
> > this.  The phenomena of cycling would be caused by the
> > bateries rizing in voltage at first, then after a
> > couple of tries the batteries accept the charge and
> > hold the voltage down.
> >
> > If you want another off the wall, What type of
> > genertor hybrid system are you using?  Is the MX 60
> > aux or the FX making the generator call?  Are you
> > trying to do AC generator support?
> >
> > Good luck
> > Darryl
> > --- Jonah Liebes <jliebes at heliopower.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi All,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I need help! I have an ongoing problem with the
> >> Automatic Generator Start on
> >> a (2) VFX 3624 system. The system is supplied by a
> >> rather small 800 Wp solar
> >> array and (6) 12V seal batteries.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Here's the problem: the starting of the back-up
> >> generator is not reliable.
> >> It will load start when the well kicks on as it's
> >> supposed to. It will
> >> usually volt start when the timed, low voltage
> >> threshold is reached, but not
> >> always.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Also, if and when it does come on, it will "cycle"
> >> on and off every 15-60
> >> seconds. The cycling could go on for hours: on for
> >> up to a minute, then off
> >> for 15 or so seconds, then back on for a minute,
> >> then off again. One strange
> >> thing is that the cycling will occur even when the
> >> generator control is set
> >> to 'manual'. I do hear the relay in the Outback
> >> closing contacts which
> >> signals the gen to start, so I don't think it's the
> >> generator itself.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I've just replaced the battery bank, added 300 Wp of
> >> PV and reset the Mate
> >> to factory defaults and reprogrammed it with Outback
> >> on the phone. Nothing
> >> has affected the problem though.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Any help out there would be greatly appreciated.
> >> I've spent hours
> >> troubleshooting and head scratching with and without
> >> Outback tech support
> >> and nobody has figured it out yet.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks in advance,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Jonah Liebes
> >>
> >> NABCEPT Cert.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> >> removed]
> >>
> >>
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