warranty issues [RE-wrenches]

Joel Davidson joel.davidson at sbcglobal.net
Wed Jun 6 09:37:28 PDT 2007


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(from the CSI Handbook)

In 2007, all systems must have a minimum 10-year warranty provided in 
combination by the manufacturer and installer to protect the purchaser 
against defective workmanship, system or component breakdown, or degradation 
in electrical output of more than fifteen percent from their originally 
rated electrical output during the ten-year period. The warranty must cover 
the solar generating system only, including PV modules (panels) and 
inverters, and provide for no-cost repair or replacement of the system or 
system components, including any associated labor during the warranty 
period.

Self-installed systems must have a minimum 10-year warranty on the equipment 
to be installed to protect the purchaser against breakdown or electrical 
output degradation of major system components. In this case, the warranty 
need not cover the labor costs associated with removing or replacing major 
components because any repairs would be done by the self-installer or at the 
self-installer's expense.

For the 2007 program year, meters must have a one-year warranty to protect 
against defective workmanship, system or component breakdown, or degradation 
in electrical output of more than fifteen percent from their originally 
rated electrical output during the warranty period. On or before January 1, 
2008, the warranty requirements will be increased to a minimum of 5 years 
for meters, unless the CEC establishes alternate requirements.

See http://www.gosolarcalifornia.ca.gov/documents/CSI_HANDBOOK.PDF for all 
the California Solar Incentive rules.

Geoff,
The PV industry claims that systems will operate continuously for more than 
20 years with very little maintenance. Warranty requirements are the price 
we have to pay for public support of the 10-year, $3 billion solar program. 
It is up to us to design and install good PV systems, use reliable parts 
from dependable suppliers and include service costs in our price. Suppliers 
must share the cost for component repair and replacement. The best 
qualifying question to ask a potential supplier is, "If you were the 
customer and your system did not work right, what would you expect?"
Joel Davidson

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Geoff Greenfield" <Geoff at Third-Sun.Com>
To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 7:14 AM
Subject: Re: warranty issues [RE-wrenches]


>
> Does the CEC 10 year warranty req. spell out what and how etc etc?  If 
> so -
> can someone point me to it?  In OH we have a 2-yr req. with no fine 
> print...
> the fine print is where it's at... I could give you a 100 year warranty 
> with
> fine print that will keep Marco behind a desk and out of the hammock - but 
> I
> wouldn't be proud of it and it wouldn't buy me long term customers...
>
> We have been left hanging too many times as customers' expectation meet 
> with
> manufacturer warranties' fine print ("yes the part replacement is covered
> but not our two trips to replace it...").  We now are making our own fine
> print... then putting it is plain-speak and bold so we are all on the same
> page.  We offer a 100% warranty on any faulty workmanship on our part, no
> questions asked... but component failures that are not our fault get the
> service rate, including drive time.
>
> What are the rest of you wrenches doing?
>
> For a brighter energy future,
>
> Geoff Greenfield
> President
> Third Sun Solar & Wind Power Ltd.
> 340 West State street, Unit 25
> Athens, Ohio 45701
> (740) 597-3111   fax: (740)597-1548
> www.third-sun.com
>
> Clean Energy - Expertly Installed
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RE-wrenches at topica.com [mailto:RE-wrenches at topica.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 7:03 AM
> To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
> Subject: Digest for RE-wrenches at topica.com, issue 2429
>
> -- Topica Digest --
>
> warranty issues
> By marco at pvthawaii.com
>
> Re: warranty issues
> By jay at asis.com
>
> RE: warranty issues
> By marco at pvthawaii.com
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 11:45:40 -1000
> From: "Marco" <marco at pvthawaii.com>
> Subject: warranty issues
>
>
>
> With the California Solar Initiative requiring bumper-to-bumper 10-year
> warranties from the PV system provider, what are you CA. wrenches doing to
> calculate the cost of that warranty?  That is, what are you charging your
> customers to cover your popos for being on the hook for ten years? 
> Warranty
> issues are a huge unknown in my opinion as more and more PV systems go in
> across our land.  I mean, what if our inverter and module manufacturer
> friends decide to play hardball with this or that type of warranty claim?
> That means that the integrator is ultimately responsible, right?  I don't
> know about you all, but even five-year warranties scare me and a ten-year
> warranty makes want to head to beach and hang in hammock....
>
> Thanks,
> Marco
>
> Marco Mangelsdorf, Ph.D., President
> Electrical Contractor License C-26351
> 69 Railroad Avenue, Suite A-7
> Hilo, Hawaii 96720 USA
> (808) 969-3281, fax 934-7462
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 18:13:26 -0700
> From: jay peltz <jay at asis.com>
> Subject: Re: warranty issues [RE-wrenches]
>
>
>
> Hi Marco,
>
> I'm curious about how you install a battery based system with a 10 yr
> warranty?
>
> jay
>
> peltz power
> On Jun 5, 2007, at 2:45 PM, Marco Mangelsdorf wrote:
>
>>
>> With the California Solar Initiative requiring bumper-to-bumper 10-
>> year
>> warranties from the PV system provider, what are you CA. wrenches
>> doing to
>> calculate the cost of that warranty?  That is, what are you
>> charging your
>> customers to cover your popos for being on the hook for ten years?
>> Warranty
>> issues are a huge unknown in my opinion as more and more PV systems
>> go in
>> across our land.  I mean, what if our inverter and module manufacturer
>> friends decide to play hardball with this or that type of warranty
>> claim?
>> That means that the integrator is ultimately responsible, right?  I
>> don't
>> know about you all, but even five-year warranties scare me and a
>> ten-year
>> warranty makes want to head to beach and hang in hammock....
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Marco
>>
>> Marco Mangelsdorf, Ph.D., President
>> Electrical Contractor License C-26351
>> 69 Railroad Avenue, Suite A-7
>> Hilo, Hawaii 96720 USA
>> (808) 969-3281, fax 934-7462
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> - - - -
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>>
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>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 14:46:35 -1000
> From: "Marco" <marco at pvthawaii.com>
> Subject: RE: warranty issues [RE-wrenches]
>
>
>
> Jay,
>
> I wouldn't give a 10-year warranty for any battery-based system.  Even
> though there's no system warranty requirement out here in Hawai'i--as we
> don't have any kind of buydown program--I'm being asked to provide a 
> 10-year
> warranty for the three-phase commercial PV systems we're doing and am 
> trying
> to get a better handle on the costs/risks incurred with such a long
> warranty.
>
> Cheers,
> marco
> Hi Marco,
>
> I'm curious about how you install a battery based system with a 10 yr
> warranty?
>
> jay
>
> peltz power
> On Jun 5, 2007, at 2:45 PM, Marco Mangelsdorf wrote:
>
>>
>> With the California Solar Initiative requiring bumper-to-bumper 10-
>> year warranties from the PV system provider, what are you CA. wrenches
>> doing to calculate the cost of that warranty?  That is, what are you
>> charging your
>> customers to cover your popos for being on the hook for ten years?
>> Warranty
>> issues are a huge unknown in my opinion as more and more PV systems go
>> in across our land.  I mean, what if our inverter and module
>> manufacturer friends decide to play hardball with this or that type of
>> warranty claim?
>> That means that the integrator is ultimately responsible, right?  I
>> don't know about you all, but even five-year warranties scare me and a
>> ten-year warranty makes want to head to beach and hang in hammock....
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Marco
>>
>> Marco Mangelsdorf, Ph.D., President
>> Electrical Contractor License C-26351
>> 69 Railroad Avenue, Suite A-7
>> Hilo, Hawaii 96720 USA
>> (808) 969-3281, fax 934-7462
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
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> End of RE-wrenches at topica.com digest, issue 2429
>
>
>
>
>
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