Grounding on granite island [RE-wrenches]

Ken Schaal ken at commonwealthsolar.com
Sat Apr 7 13:50:48 PDT 2007


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Gee Ray, that really ruins my afternoon-----

Bet it ruined yours more !

What was at the working end of your ground wire?

Thanks
Ken



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ray Walters" <walters at taosnet.com>
To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 1:52 PM
Subject: Re: Grounding on granite island [RE-wrenches]


>
>
> We did an installation on a rocky mountain top in West Texas several 
> years ago. Same thing:  solid rock 6" below the surface. This system 
> featured a 50 ft tall wind generator as well. We dutifully tied all  the 
> grounds together, ran copper outside of the conduit to enhance  the 
> conductivity to ground, put in polyphasor lightning protection, etc.
> A lightning strike apparently to the wind generator sent a surge  through 
> the grounding system that took out 2 SW4024s, the charge  controller, the 
> Omnimeter, and the Kohler control for the generator.
> After that, we ran a 1/2" steel cable  ( that's what they had  already) 
> and ran it from our existing ground system a 1/2 mile to a  steel cased 
> well in the valley below. Seems to have done the trick,  as we haven't had 
> any trouble since. That is a lot of cable, but that  was a lot of 
> equipment taken out too.
>
> Ray Walters
>
>
> On Apr 7, 2007, at 5:44 AM, Ken Schaal wrote:
>
>>
>> Several years ago we designed and furnished an off grid 2 kw system  for 
>> an extremely remote research facility in Gabon, Africa. It is  located on 
>> a huge slab of rock in the middle of the rain  forest ,with tall trees 
>> all around, on the equator and miles from  the nearest dirt road. Most 
>> supplies were delivered by helicopter.  All the buildings were built on 
>> piers on the rock, so a Ufer was  not an option. Shallow wet ground was 
>> several hundred feet away at  the edge of the rock and near a shallow 
>> river. So we supplied a  large sheet of recycled heavy gauge copper 
>> roofing with copper  grounding cable soldered to it, and several clamps 
>> to attach a #4  copper ground wire from the array and inverters. Surge 
>> protectors  were of course built in to the Outback power panel . 302's I 
>> think,  probably should have used the really good one's from Polyphaser, 
>> I  think. Instructions were to bury this copper plate in as wet a  place 
>> ,and as deep, as possible. They have quite a few lightning  storms. So 
>> far they are quite pleased with the system, which powers  the office and 
>> kitchen, including refrigeration. IE; It hasn't been  zapped yet !
>>
>> My questions to the assembled wisdom of this group are;
>> -- was this the best solution and/or could it be improved?
>> --During the dry season, should they be sure to keep wet the area  where 
>> it is buried ?
>> --Should a lightning protection system, like those used on houses,  be 
>> considered? Or is the marginal grounding point the main issue?
>> --What is the best way to test the effectiveness of the existing  ground 
>> system, including the path from PV panel to mounting system  [ alum. rack 
>> on wooden support     structure] to ground wire across  rock?
>>        This wire by the way, was supposed to have been encased in  latex 
>> modified cement mortar to fasten it to the rock so the people  and 
>> elephants wondering thru         camp wouldn't dislodge it !
>> --What else should be considered?
>>
>> Everything has to be shipped by container from NY. We have some  smaller 
>> systems leaving in several weeks, and if improvements are  to be made, 
>> this would be the time.
>>
>> Thank you in advance for your thoughts, and time.
>>
>> Ken Schaal
>> CommonWealthSolar,LLC
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Undercuffler" 
>> <p.undercuffler at conergy.us>
>> To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
>> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 10:59 PM
>> Subject: RE: Grounding on granite island [RE-wrenches]
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Are they pouring concrete footers?
>>>
>>> Establish a Ufer ground by tying to the rebar in the foundation.  Here 
>>> in
>>> the dry Southwest, it's the preferred grounding method in the area --
>>> fast, easy, effective and very nearly free.
>>>
>>> Have the concrete sub bend up a piece of the footing rebar, and leave
>>> 9-10" exposed out of the slab in the area of the power system.   Connect
>>> to it with a two piece grounding "saddle" clamp, which makes a  bronze 
>>> to
>>> steel connection, and keeps the copper conductor isolated from the
>>> steel.
>>>
>>> Of course, if they aren't pouring a concrete foundation this wouldn't
>>> help.
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Phil Undercuffler
>>> Technical Services Manager
>>> Conergy, Inc.
>>> 1730 Camino Carlos Rey Suite 103
>>> Santa Fe NM 87507 USA
>>> Office | 505.473.3800 x4841
>>> Fax | 505.473.3830
>>> www.conergy.us
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Michael Welch [mailto:michael.welch at homepower.com]
>>> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 10:57 AM
>>> To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
>>> Subject: Grounding on granite island [RE-wrenches]
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi gang I an email awhile back about a grounding question, and a
>>> follow-up phone call today.
>>>
>>> This fellow is building a PV/wind/generator system for small  cottages 
>>> on
>>> a solid granite rock out on Lake Huron. His earth grounding plan  is to
>>> haul a big steel plate out onto the ice (will need to do this pretty
>>> soon) and let it sink to the lake floor as a way of grounding the
>>> system.
>>>
>>> Or he may be able to submerge a plate in his graywater pool.
>>>
>>> There is no more than 6 inches of earth above the granite on the 
>>> island.
>>> He does not have access to the kind of equipment needed to drill deep
>>> holes in the granite, but he can drill 6 or so inches deep.
>>>
>>> His RE dealer has been no help because of the unusual nature of the
>>> problem, and he has not been able to get help from local electrical
>>> engineers and electricians for the same reason.
>>>
>>> He wants to know if he is doing this correctly, and what size  plates to
>>> use, how many, and anything else you can think of.
>>>
>>> You can either respond here if you think it will be of interest to  the
>>> list, or if you need more info and want to carry out an email
>>> conversation with him, let me know off list and I will get you his 
>>> email
>>> address.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance for your help.
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------
>>> Michael Welch
>>> Sr. Editor
>>>     Home Power magazine
>>>     www.homepower.com
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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>>
>
> R. Walters
> Solarray.com
> NABCEP # 04170442
>
>
>
> --
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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> 


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