Hot water at summer camp [RE-wrenches]

Darryl Thayer daryl_solar at yahoo.com
Sun Mar 18 09:36:26 PDT 2007 

Don"t underestimate the tremendous power draw of these
heaters.  If the campers run out of hot water and they
start using the 70 amps per leg per cabin this will
wipe you out fast.

The problems I have had and even in my own house has
been the temperature changes as you try to shower. 
When the flow rate is steady only one shower and the
solar is not to hot, the unit will turn on, on medium
fire, and the user actually adjusts the temperature by
flow rate.  If the solar is to hot the unit will hunt
on its own accord with the high limit shutting it off
and the temp changing.  Now if you add a second
shower, it comes on and now the temp drops, then the
first shower adjusts either the flow or the mix (same
thing) the second shower changes temp and they adjust
the first then changes temp and they adjust AAAhhhh!

Now I explain this to people who have solar and
instant water heaters, and that I will not guarantee
satisfaction, and I still get customers saying it is
my problem when they are unhappy, and I need to fix
that.  

When people get experience they understand how to
adjust and do not have two showers on at once and get
by OK.

Mixing valves will do this for you automatically, but
they usually fall out of the range of acceptable temp
range.    
--- Holt Kelly <holtek at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> 
> Darryl,
> Could you eleaborate a bit on why the customers were
> "unhappy" and on 
> the "tricks needed" for uniform temps? The only
> complaint that I have 
> gotten on electric tankless (besides spinning the
> meter at 1000rpm)is 
> the loud clicks of the relays during start-up (Eemax
> brand). Thanks for 
> your input. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Darryl Thayer wrote:
> > 
> > Hello
> > I agree, except for the back-up heater.  I have
> > installed up to 70A-240 volt instant heaters with
> > unhappy customers.  I have installed even the
> TAGAI
> > which is rated for solar with unhappy customers
> > because of the tricks that must be played to get a
> > shower of uniform temperature.  If the goal is
> > reasonable showers then use a tank type back up
> > heater.
> > Darryl 
> > --- Bill Loesch <solar1online at charter.net> wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > > Hi Holt,
> > > 
> > > Good thinking! If the hot water load is after
> the
> > > sun can work all day, the
> > > ICS heaters are probably a good bet for
> simplicity
> > > (and relatively low
> > > cost). You have checked the structure for your
> dual
> > > ICS installation?
> > > 
> > > You need to choose a backup heater that is
> > > compatiable with preheated water
> > > (not all are). As a minimum, a temperature
> sensor
> > > for _incoming_ water would
> > > be required. Be aware of the very large
> electrical
> > > demands of an electric
> > > tankless capable of providing heated water for a
> > > single shower. Compute the
> > > temperature rise with the _lowest_ water
> temperature
> > > that will reach the
> > > heater, probably in winter, not the _average_
> water
> > > temperature that so many
> > > of the clueless tankless marketing folks
> promote.
> > > Add dual drain valves
> > > inboard of the dual shutoff valves so that
> manual
> > > descaling is a relatively
> > > simple operation if/when the tankless heat
> exchanger
> > > becomes blocked.
> > > 
> > > Finally, for both the benefit of the ICS and the
> > > tankless (and any other
> > > appliance in the hot water distribution) if you
> have
> > > hard water (and
> > > especially very hard water) you _NEED_ a water
> > > softener (preferably
> > > installed only on the hot water side) for
> minimal
> > > maintenance.
> > > 
> > > Good luck,
> > > 
> > > Bill Loesch
> > > Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar
> > > 314 631 1094
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: "Holt Kelly" <holtek at sbcglobal.net>
> > > To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
> > > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 10:42 AM
> > > Subject: Hot water at summer camp [RE-wrenches]
> > > 
> > > 
> > > >
> > > > I have been asked to design a hot water system
> at
> > > a summer camp. 21
> > > > seperate sytems. Hot water for showers is used
> > > from 4:30pm to 5:30pm(14
> > > > showers)per system, very little use the rest
> of
> > > the day. Solar resource
> > > > is excellent to fair. My initial thoughts were
> 2-
> > > 40gal passive
> > > > collectors with an electric tankless backup
> (need
> > > to keep maintenance to
> > > > a minimum). Or possibly Helio-flo with single
> > > tank. Any thoughts out
> > > > there?
> > > >
> > > > Holt E. Kelly
> > > > Holtek Fireplace & Solar Products
> > > > Waco, TX.
> > > >
> > > >
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> 
> 
> Holt E. Kelly
> Holtek Fireplace & Solar Products
> Waco, TX.
> 
> 
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