Sunny Island [RE-wrenches]

Fri Oct 27 19:18:57 PDT 2006

John B,

Can you give me an answer the original question ??

Is it OK to run independent charging sources on the same bank as a Sunny
Island ??

The basic setup is to supply 3 phase as follows:
			 	4 kW Hydro - Windyboy - Sunny Island
supplies phase one.
				Sunny Island supplies phase two.
				Sunny Island supplies phase three.
These are all on the same 48 Volt Bank.
Then...			5 kW Scirocco - Magnetek - (Grid-tied) on the same
bank

The SMA rep over here is saying that the new 6 kW Sunny Islands are
available and able to supply three phase 230 Volts. I guess this must be the
European version.

The reason for the 3 phase is to run a 7 kW bore pump.

I am advised that I cant use a Windyboy with the Scirocco without loosing
performance for the following reasons:

Input voltage window is rather narrow : less MMPT operation range  

Input voltage is higher : need of transformer = add. losses 

MPPT is based on 3 points only : so lower production

Even if I give up on supplying real 3 phase and simply supply three
individual phases with two Sunny Islands and a Magnetek all on the same
bank, will SMA advise that Sunny Islands do not like to share the same bank
with other charging sources ??

Comments appreciated.

Carl Emerson
Manager
Free Power Ltd.
Cell   021-633999
Cellfax   021-2919399
Email   emerson at freepower.co.nz
Web   www.freepower.co.nz

-----Original Message-----
From: John Berdner [mailto:jberdner at sma-america.com] 
Sent: 28 October 2006 8:32 a.m.
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject: RE: Sunny Island [RE-wrenches]

Wrenches/Damian/Jeff:

The new SI 5408 is scheduled for 1Q2007 >>BUT<< I am always hesitant to give
a hard date until we finish UL testing.
While we do not anticipate any problems, we do have a brand new version of
the UL-1741 (all inverters have to meet the new requirements by May 2007).
We are in uncharted territory with some aspects of the new Standard so I
there is a higher degree of uncertainty.

To address some of points raised in your post:

Yes, they can be paralleled in 204 Vac (split phase) and 208 Vac (three
phase) applications.
They will operate in off grid, backup, and grid tied modes.
4 "clusters" in parallel is as much as we are comfortable with at the moment
but "in theory" there is no limit.
Still this is a bunch of power for a single 240 Vac load center. (40kVA
continuous and almost 100 kVA for surges).
The battery required at 48 Vdc to do more than 4 clusters requires several
paralled strings and so accurate charge control becomes difficult.  

You can always split up the loads and generation onto multiple clusters for
larger systems.

Hope this helps,

John Berdner

>>> damian at thesolarcenter.com 10/27/2006 10:32:18 AM >>>

Yeah I spoke to SMA and word is that the 5KW SI should be coming out soon,
hopefully by the first quarter of next year. The new features are that up to
8 units can be paralleled for 240V (4 on each leg) and it is also capable of
208 paralleling. I did not think to ask max units parallel in 208, it
probably will be 6 or 9, I would guess 6 since the max at 240 is 8. As far
as battery voltages I did not think to ask about that either. I know the SI
4648 is capable of supporting up to 20 concorde 2580 batteries @ 48V wiring,
and if you increase this to a 240 parallel version than . The Island central
(only available in Europe) which I think is available up to a 200KW version,
uses battery banks at 200VDC, but I don't think that would fly with the NEC
so most likely the larger

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Clearwater [mailto:clrwater at earthlink.net] 
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 10:34 AM
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com 
Subject: Re: Sunny Island [RE-wrenches]

${top_text_ad}
Hey Carl,

I suspect you know that the European version of 
the Sunny Island is a different animal than the 
US version. Which are you working with? I don't 
think the US version even supports 3ø yet - 
though the next version will - which is now being 
worked on will. They say next year - we'll see.

And why not put SMA inverters on the system so 
they can talk - the Magnetek and SI won't work 
together on charge control.

We just installed a stacked set of SIs with a 
Sunny Boy feeding into the mini-grid - love it! 
AC coupling is the way to go!

Tell me more of what you are trying to accomplish.

Best,

Jeff Clearwater
Village Power Design

>Hi Group,
>
>I have need to supply 3 phase to house via 3 Sunny Island inverters.
>
>I have heard that they can operate with a common battery bank but do not
>like any other charging source on the same bank.
>
>Is this true... and if so why ??
>
>The reason is that I want to also install a Magnetek grid-tie inverter on
>the same 48V 850Ah bank linked to an Eoltec Scirocco 6 kW turbine.
>
>Greatly appreciate comments on this.
>
>Carl Emerson
>Free Power Ltd.
>Auckland NZ
>

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jeff Clearwater
Village Power Design
Sustainable Energy & Water Solutions for Home & Village
http://www.villagepower.com 
gosolar at villagepower.com 
NABCEP (tm) Certified Solar PV Installer

530-470-9166
877-SOLARVillage
877-765-2784
65 Schoolhouse Rd
Amherst, MA 01002
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`~

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