ground water cooling [RE-wrenches]
Geoff Greenfield
Geoff at Third-Sun.Com
Mon Jun 19 16:02:16 PDT 2006
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Thanks for the input Jeff and Conrad!
Mine will definitely be a bit of homebrew for sure (with and without fans,
fan speed, etc). I am likening the idea of old fridge condensers! Since I
have a buried rainwater cistern, I won't be dependant of water use, but will
be circulating and returning water (theoretically warming it up too).
Christopher's island project also was fan less. Should be interesting.
For a brighter energy future,
Geoff Greenfield
NABCEP Certified Energy Practitioner
THIRD SUN SOLAR & WIND POWER Ltd.
340 West State Street
Athens, OH 45701
www.third-sun.com
(740) 597-3111
-----Original Message-----
From: RE-wrenches at topica.com [mailto:RE-wrenches at topica.com]
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 7:03 AM
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject: Digest for RE-wrenches at topica.com, issue 2119
-- Topica Digest --
ground water cooling
By conradg at cape.com
Re: ground water cooling
By clrwater at earthlink.net
RE: tare losses
By bill at brooksolar.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 09:08:06 -0400
From: "Conrad Geyser" <conradg at cape.com>
Subject: ground water cooling
We've done the incoming water condensing unit as well, with good success.
Solar pnael cores and used refrigeration coils work well too.
No fans directly on the coils though. Wouldn't the air movement discourage
condenstaion?
Conrad
Cotuit Solar
508-428-8442
> Hi Wrenches:
>
> A simple, relatively cheap, "passive" dehumidifier/AC;
>
> Install a copper coil on the intake of your cold=20
> water supply and then install a fan to blow=20
> across it - (either powered by a direct coupled=20
> PV or a AC fan controlled by a flow activated=20
> switch).
>
> Works especially well in public buildings with=20
> commercial kitchens (or places that use alot of=20
> irrigation water) - any where where the water=20
> runs alot. Not very effective for residential=20
> water conserving households, but if you have a=20
> spare PV panel lying around it's a relatively=20
> cheap free source of coolth/dehumidification.
>
> And it works especially well if you have a deep well with nice cold water.
>
> We installed one on a conference center with a=20
> commercial kitchen. They called me in to solve=20
> the sweating pipes syndrome since they used alot=20
> of water and their pipes dripping with=20
> condensate were causing a real problem in the=20
> basement - so i got to thinking why not make that=20
> source of coolth concentrated. So Installed=20
> about 25' of 3/4 coiled copper right after the=20
> pressure tank and coupled it to a 50 watt PV=20
> panel and fan. Pulls about 3-5 gallons of water=20
> out of a humid New England summer day. And It=20
> warms the water slightly so the sweating is not=20
> such a problem down the line. Not bad for free=20
> coolth.
>
> Jeff C.
> Village Power Design
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer=81
>
>
>
>
>>Hi Todd,
>>
>>The issue that Christopher brings up is a very=20
>>real problem and is what caused most of those=20
>>systems to fail.
>>
>>I've been told that around 50% humidity is the=20
>>upper limit for a swamp cooler to work.
>>
>>Just as an aside, Sante Fe NM, has outlawed=20
>>swamp coolers due to water usage. So they are=20
>>now using AC in very low humidity which isn't=20
>>good
>>for AC units.
>>
>>Jay
>>
>>Peltz Power
>>
>>Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor:
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Here=EDs your chance to tell some of the most=20
>>important names inretailing and household=20
>>products what=EDs on your mind. You could wina=20
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>>consumer opinion paneland filling out a brief=20
>>survey.
>>http://click.topica.com/caaeTvObz8Qcsa9hBZif/ HomeWorldResearch
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>- - - -
>>To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com
>>
>>Archive of previous messages:
>>http://lists.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/rea=
> d
>>
>>List rules & how to change your email address:=20
>>www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquette.php
>>
>>Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/
>>
>>Hosted by Home Power magazine
>>
>>Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com
>
>
> --
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Jeff Clearwater
> Village Power Design
> Sustainable Energy & Water Solutions for Home & Village
> http://www.villagepower.com
> gosolar at villagepower.com
> NABCEP (tm) Certified Solar PV Installer
>
> 530-470-9166
> 877-SOLARVillage
> 877-765-2784
> 72 Baker Rd.
> Shutesbury, MA 01072
> 425 Nimrod St.
> Nevada City, CA 95959
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`~
>
> Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor:
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
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> and household products what's on your mind. You could win a free iPod Nano
> by signing up for our new consumer opinion panel and filling out a brief
> survey.
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> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> - - - -
> To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com
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> http://lists.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/read
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> Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 09:54:49 -0400
From: Jeff Clearwater <clrwater at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: ground water cooling [RE-wrenches]
Hi Conrad,
Depends on the humidity level, I would think.=20
The one we did was in a very wet basement and the=20
fan speed was pretty slow as it was direct=20
coupled to a 50 watt PV panel. I got more water=20
with the fan than without.
Seems to me ground water cooling should be=20
pursued more. I've heard of ground water heating=20
through seasonal storage by pumping through=20
wells. Seems like cooling would be even easier.=20
Of course the pump energy would have to be less=20
than the cooling gained - which is why we did=20
this one - the water runs for many hours/day=20
already. If one added storage to the system, you=20
could pull more coolth out of the water while=20
also reducing the cycling of well pumps (and=20
reducing hot water bills in summer).
Best,
Jeff C.
Village Power Design
>
>
>We've done the incoming water condensing unit as well, with good success.
>Solar pnael cores and used refrigeration coils work well too.
>No fans directly on the coils though. Wouldn't=20
>the air movement discourage condenstaion?
>
>Conrad
>Cotuit Solar
>508-428-8442
>
>>Hi Wrenches:
>>
>>A simple, relatively cheap, "passive" dehumidifier/AC;
>>
>>Install a copper coil on the intake of your cold=3D20
>>water supply and then install a fan to blow=3D20
>>across it - (either powered by a direct coupled=3D20
>>PV or a AC fan controlled by a flow activated=3D20
>>switch).
>>
>> Works especially well in public buildings with=3D20
>>commercial kitchens (or places that use alot of=3D20
>>irrigation water) - any where where the water=3D20
>>runs alot. Not very effective for residential=3D20
>>water conserving households, but if you have a=3D20
>>spare PV panel lying around it's a relatively=3D20
>>cheap free source of coolth/dehumidification.
>>
>>And it works especially well if you have a deep well with nice cold water.
>>
>>We installed one on a conference center with a=3D20
>>commercial kitchen. They called me in to solve=3D20
>>the sweating pipes syndrome since they used alot=3D20
>>of water and their pipes dripping with=3D20
>>condensate were causing a real problem in the=3D20
>>basement - so i got to thinking why not make that=3D20
>>source of coolth concentrated. So Installed=3D20
>>about 25' of 3/4 coiled copper right after the=3D20
>>pressure tank and coupled it to a 50 watt PV=3D20
>>panel and fan. Pulls about 3-5 gallons of water=3D20
>>out of a humid New England summer day. And It=3D20
>>warms the water slightly so the sweating is not=3D20
>>such a problem down the line. Not bad for free=3D20
>>coolth.
>>
>>Jeff C.
>>Village Power Design
>>NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer=3D81
>>
>>
>>>Hi Todd,
>>>
>>>The issue that Christopher brings up is a very=3D20
>>>real problem and is what caused most of those=3D20
>>>systems to fail.
>>>
>>>I've been told that around 50% humidity is the=3D20
>>>upper limit for a swamp cooler to work.
>>>
>>>Just as an aside, Sante Fe NM, has outlawed=3D20
>>>swamp coolers due to water usage. So they are=3D20
>>>now using AC in very low humidity which isn't=3D20
>>>good
>>>for AC units.
>>>
>>>Jay
>>>
>>>Peltz Power
>>>
>>>Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor:
>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>Here=3DEDs your chance to tell some of the most=3D20
>>>important names inretailing and household=3D20
>>>products what=3DEDs on your mind. You could wina=3D20
>>>free iPod Nano by signing up for our new=3D20
>>>consumer opinion paneland filling out a brief=3D20
>>>survey.
>>>http://click.topica.com/caaeTvObz8Qcsa9hBZif/ HomeWorldResearch
>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>- - - -
>>>To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com
>>>
>>>Archive of previous messages:
http://lists.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/r=
ea=3D
>>d
>>>
>>>List rules & how to change your email address:=3D20
>>>www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquette.php
>>>
>>>Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/
>>>
>>>Hosted by Home Power magazine
>>>
>>>Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com
>>
>>
>>--
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>Jeff Clearwater
>>Village Power Design
>>Sustainable Energy & Water Solutions for Home & Village
>>http://www.villagepower.com
>>gosolar at villagepower.com
>>NABCEP (tm) Certified Solar PV Installer
>>
>>530-470-9166
>>877-SOLARVillage
>>877-765-2784
>>72 Baker Rd.
>>Shutesbury, MA 01072
>>425 Nimrod St.
>>Nevada City, CA 95959
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`~
>>
>>Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor:
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Here's your chance to tell some of the most=20
>>important names in retailing and household=20
>>products what's on your mind. You could win a=20
>>free iPod Nano by signing up for our new=20
>>consumer opinion panel and filling out a brief=20
>>survey.
>>http://click.topica.com/caaeTvObz8QcscfnEoDf/ HomeWorldResearch
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>- - - -
>>To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com
>>
>>Archive of previous messages:
http://lists.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/re=
ad
>>
>>List rules & how to change your email address:=20
>>www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquette.php
>>
>>Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/
>>
>>Hosted by Home Power magazine
>>
>>Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com
>>
>
>Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor:
>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>FREE Zoobooks Elephants ISSUE and tiger POSTER!
>Is your child reading? Zoobooks is guaranteed to=20
>improve your child=92s reading skills. Click below=20
>to sign up now!
>http://click.topica.com/caaeTvWbz8Qcsa9hBZif/ Zoobooks
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>
>- - - -
>To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com
>
>Archive of previous messages:
http://lists.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/rea=
d
>
>List rules & how to change your email address:=20
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>
>Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/
>
>Hosted by Home Power magazine
>
>Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jeff Clearwater
Village Power Design
Sustainable Energy & Water Solutions for Home & Village
http://www.villagepower.com
gosolar at villagepower.com
NABCEP (tm) Certified Solar PV Installer
530-470-9166
877-SOLARVillage
877-765-2784
72 Baker Rd.
Shutesbury, MA 01072
425 Nimrod St.
Nevada City, CA 95959
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`~
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 15:44:20 -1000
From: "Bill Brooks" <bill at brooksolar.com>
Subject: RE: tare losses [RE-wrenches]
Marco,
You can look at the nightime losses for every inverter on the CEC website
http://www.consumerenergycenter.org/erprebate/inverter_tests/index.html.
They have all been tested.
Bill.
-----Original Message-----
From: Marco Mangelsdorf [mailto:marco at pvthawaii.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 9:32 AM
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject: tare losses [RE-wrenches]
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I've got a 20 kVA 98% efficient 208/208 isolation transformer connected to
the grid. With no nighttime disconnect/contactor for the transformer, what
can I expect the nighttime tare loss to be per hour? Is there a simple
equation to determine this value for any transformer? Will this number be
affected by the transformer efficiency and/or whether it's a
straight-through of step-up unit?
Tankie, tankie,
marco
Marco Mangelsdorf
ProVision Technologies, Inc.
Electrical Contractor C-26351
69 Railroad Avenue, A-7
Hilo, Hawai'i 96720
(808) 969-3281
(808) 934-7462 fax
<http://www.provisiontechnologies.com> www.provisiontechnologies.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor:
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Here's your chance to tell some of the most important names in
retailing and household products what's on your mind. You could win
a free iPod Nano by signing up for our new consumer opinion panel
and filling out a brief survey.
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End of RE-wrenches at topica.com digest, issue 2119
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