Kohler RES Units in PV Applications [RE-wrenches]

Wed Jan 5 20:03:51 PST 2005

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  Oops. That was an 1800 RPM Generac, not 1500!

  Sorry

  Matt T
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "Matt Tritt" <solarone at charter.net>
  To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
  Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 7:13 PM
  Subject: Re: Re: Kohler RES Units in PV Applications [RE-wrenches]

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    Gang,

    I have just installed a new Kohler 15 RYG model genny as a retro-fit for 
a
  really poor solar installation that included a Generac 15 kW with a 1500 
RPM
  Mitsubishi engine. Because of improper installation and inherant design
  flaws the Generac pooped-out with under 1000 hrs on the clock.

    The RYG series appears to be a departure from the odler versions that 
had
  the nifty ford industrial 4-banger and straight-forward connections for AC
  outputs and automation input, in that everything is now connected in the
  current automotive fashion of having all wire looms with plug connectors.

    They have a very impressive 4 cylinder GM 4 cyl. engine now, but
  everything is very user un-friendly from a solar installer's point of 
view.
  It's as if they decided to just make one model now that is adaptable to
  closed or open frame, which isn't a bad idea, but that means lot's of
  un-used pigtails, plugs and other stuff just hanging all over the place.
  Very messy indeed.

    The other intersting thing is that it just plain stopped working after
  about 6 hours run time. Cool!

    These babies are all solid-state now, with no user-accessable parts
  anywhere. Bummer. Now if there is a "mysterious" problem with the 12 volt
  system, all you can do is change-out the control board (there are 2 or 3 
of
  them) and see if that fixes the problem; if not, simply try replacing
  another one and see if that works. Is this an improvement?

    Even though the Kohler is priced fairly, these problems once again 
provoke
  me to reccomend the Lister/Petter for the serious, higher-end 
installations
  you guys might have where reliability and longevity are the main concerns. 
A
  good price only goes so far.

    Matt T
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: "Allan Sindelar" <allan at positiveenergysolar.com>
    To: "New wrenches posting" <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
    Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 4:53 PM
    Subject: Fw: Re: Kohler RES Units in PV Applications [RE-wrenches]

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    Wrenches,
    Here's some background communication about the Kohler RES gennies. I 
sent
  a
    bunch of saved Wrench postings (including a few gripes from years ago 
that
    I'd saved) about Kohler units to a man at our Kohler distributor. Below 
is
    some of the relevant RES stuff, in reverse chronological order. It 
appears
    that a good solution hasn't yet been found to the controller 
battery-drain
    issue.
    Allan @+E

    (Kirk Herander to Allan)
    Terry has a good point. The manual states that any service work should 
be
    performed with the battery disconnected, but of course that won't 
happen.
  So
    we need to put warning labels on generators where the remote start is
    paralleled with the run contacts. I also pull off the auto-start lead 
from
    the generator's control switch to insure that if it is misstakenly put 
in
    auto position the battery will not run down. Putting the switch in auto
    position will disable any remote start posibilities as well.

    In regard to the 48 hour power-down jumper, I have removed the jumper on
    several systems and the battery still runs down to the point of not 
being
    able to kick over the generator. Why? Because the controller uses a
  measured
    685 ma continuosly out of the starting battery when in auto mode(NOT the
  250
    ma the manual states!!!!). Over a 48 hr period, thats 33 ahr, enough to
  drop
    the shallow cycle 675 CCA-recommend battery to nearly dead status.

    Kirk, Vermont Solar Engineering

    (From: "Robert Hilkemeier" <RobertH at e-c-co.com> to Allan)
    >      I sent the message from Kirk to our Service Manager, Terry Klein
    > for his comment (see below).
    >
    >      I am definitely looking to be able to make a recommendation to 
our
    > dealers to address this specific issue.  Because the latest involves a
    > safety issue, we can't recommend this approach.
    >
    >      Do you possibly have any input about pulling the continuous power
    > mode jumper to allow the controller to power down after 48 hours and
    > then using the output of the generator to power a battery charger to
    > charge the batteries while the unit is running?  Is this somehow
    > problematic or not an effective solution?  Why do people continue to
    > look for other ways to do this?

    (From Terry Klein, Kohler service manager, to Robert)
    HE IS RIGHT IT CAN BE PARALLELED. THE PROBLEM IS IF SOMEONE IS WORKING 
ON
    > THE GENERATOR THERE IS A POSSIBILITY FOR THE PERSON SERVICING THE UNIT
    > THAT THE INVERTER CALLS FOR A START AND THE UNIT WOULD CRANK WITH
    > SOMEONE'S HANDS IN ROTATING PARTS, OR THE OIL IS DRAINING OUT OF THE
    > UNIT. THERE IS NO WAY TO STOP THE CRANKING FROM THE UNIT WITHOUT 
PULLING
    > A BATTERY CABLE.  THIS METHOD IS REALLY A SAFETY ISSUE. I WANT TO KEEP
    > ALL OF MY FINGERS, THANK YOU!
    > TERRY KLEIN, EC POWER SYSTEMS AURORA

    (From Allan to Robert)
    > Thanks for the CC. Here's another piece by Kirk, that I think was 
posted
    > after I forwarded all of those messages to you. I think it's pretty
    relevant.
    > By the way, the RE-Wrenches list is primarily focused on Renewable
  Energy
    > issues, of which generator integration is but one aspect.
    >
    (From Kirk to Wrenches) Duh, here's the easiet way to eliminate the 
power
    draw of the
    > controller for
    > remote start. Simply wire the remote start switch in parallel with the
  run
    > contacts of the Kohler on-board switch. Do not put the on-board switch
  in
    > the auto position. Leave it it the stop (middle) position. It will
    > start/stop just fine remotely and the starting battery will not drain
    down.
    > No need to remove the 48 hr power-down jumper either. No additional
  relays
    > required.

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