Wind Turbines with Windy Boy Inverter - Point Power [RE-wrenches]

Matt Tritt solarone at charter.net
Sat Jul 10 10:51:21 PDT 2004 

 

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All of our Bornay battery-based turbines have a dump load as standard
equipment. We're attempting to get the factory to modify the controller to
allow the dump load to "stop" the machine without the battery just because
of requirements peculiar to the US. They have a hard time understanding why
the US has rules that are not consistent with the rest of the world.

Gee, maybe this is a systemic problem!

Matt T
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeremy Rodriguez" <allsolar at ris.net>
To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: Wind Turbines with Windy Boy Inverter - Point Power
[RE-wrenches]




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Yes, it does allow the turbine to free-wheel. The experience I have is that
the XL.1 can free-wheel without damage, in fact I have one unit that has
likely tripped the breaker and been free wheeling for a month! The owners
are away quite often. Bergey has provided an updated 'beta' chip for the
controller which I have yet to get installed. I have another unit within 1/2
mile with this new chip and am waiting for a report from the client. I
believe the chip extends the time delay and raises the current limit
slightly.

Here in southern Colorado the breaker issue has been a big nuisance. I do
have one XL.1 with a dump load installed, with no further issues. If the
breaker is tripping,  I believe you should install a dump load.
Jeremy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Matt Tritt" <solarone at charter.net>
To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: Wind Turbines with Windy Boy Inverter - Point Power
[RE-wrenches]




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Good question. If you take into account that the turbine has a 3 phase wild
AC alternaotor to produce whatever it produces, and that it's the connection
at the controller that allows the load and braking functions to happen at
all, it would seem that allowing that circuit to be broken would result in
an un-controlled turbine.

Matt T
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeremy Rodriguez" <allsolar at ris.net>
To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 8:21 AM
Subject: Re: Wind Turbines with Windy Boy Inverter - Point Power
[RE-wrenches]




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Matt,
What about the breaker that Bergey now has in their XL.1 controller on the
input from the turbine?
Jeremy
All Solar
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Tritt" <solarone at charter.net>
To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 9:46 AM
Subject: Re: Wind Turbines with Windy Boy Inverter - Point Power
[RE-wrenches]




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Logan,

This is an old subject by now, however I think this is also an important
subject for those of us who work with small wind turbines.

I received an answer from our supplier J. Bornay regarding breakers in line
between turbine, controller and batteries; I quote: "no fuse or breaker
should be installed between the turbine and controller, or between the
controller and the batteries. If the circuit breaks in this circuit the
windturbine will run free and the automatic brake will not work". This is
obviously because the battery bank is a load bank.

In your statement you say that "if the breaker trips, the control circuit
will stay online and the turbine will go into slow mode". I can see how that
will happen if the circuit is interrupted after the controller (using the
dump load as resistance) but not if the circuit is broken before the
controller. I believe that my  suggestion was correct regarding the reason
for not having a breaker in the circuit; it's not to protect the controller
from "spikes", it's to protect the turbine from run-away.

Matt T
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Bryce" <wlbryce at direcpc.com>
To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2004 10:03 PM
Subject: RE: Wind Turbines with Windy Boy Inverter - Point Power
[RE-wrenches]




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If the breaker trips, the controller will stay online and the turbine
will go into "slow mode" or if you have a diversion load attached it
will continue to function, but dump the power into the diversion load.
I think that the main reason for not wanting a breaker is to prohibit a
sudden shutdown under load that may spike and damage the controller.

Logan



Matt Tritt wrote:
>
> One reason Bergey might not want to see breakers in their system is that
> the
> controller may need to stay connected to the battery to allow proper
> functioning of the dump load. That's how the old type analog controllers
> are
> on the Bornay turbines we import. If the connection were to fail between
> battery and controller, how will the machine "know" when to shut down?
>
> Or?
>
> Matt T
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "William Bryce" <wlbryce at direcpc.com>
> To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
> Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2004 8:43 PM
> Subject: RE: Wind Turbines with Windy Boy Inverter - Point Power
> [RE-wrenches]
>
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> Let University of Phoenix make 2004 your year. Evening,
> weekend or FlexNet® classes - over 130 locations. Look
> into our programs and get the degree that gets you going!
> http://click.topica.com/caaciq1bz8QcsbadqCja/UOP
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> Hi Ray
>
>  Although the Bergey manual says not to use breakers, to meet code, I
> have had to use them. In off grid non grid-tie installs I use a 70 amp
> breaker in the DC power panel. If you use a 60 Amp breaker you could
> have "Nuisance tripping" and that could damage the controller when it
> trips under a high load.  With 5- XL.1 turbines in the field, installed
> with breakers we have never had a Bergey (new)controller failure.
>
>  In our grid-tie system using Outback inverters, we had problems with DC
> ripple that would effect the operation of the grid-tie inverters during
> high turbine output and varying voltage. To correct this problem we had
> to connect the wind turbine directly to the battery bank.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Logan
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Solar Ray wrote:
> >
> > Hi Geoff;
> >
> > I'm sorry I have no info in those other Wind units, but I just installed
> > a
> > Bergey XL.1 and wanted to ask a Bergey man how do you deal with code
> > issues?  I like Bergey, but I find I have to use some pretty creative
> > methods to say land conduit to their controller. Also they say NOT to
> > put a
> > disconnect between their controller and the batteries, so that too made
> > me
> > uncomfortable and seemed to violate some basic code requirements. Bergey
> >
> > then states that: " All wiring should conform to the NEC..." ;
> > definitely a
> > conundrum and I'm basically pretty liberal on code issues.  Also, our
> > local
> > building code restricts the height to 35 ft, making decent turbulence
> > free
> > installation difficult if not impossible.
> > All thoughts, wisdom, expertise, etc. the list has to offer would be
> > greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Ray
> >
> > At 11:28 AM 6/25/2004, you wrote:
> >
> > >While I am a Bergey man, I am curious as to any of your experience with
> > >Point Power Systems wind products?  I think they are the "Fortis" line
> > >with
> > >some real running hours, and they apparently are selling a grid tie
> > >model
> > >set up for the windyboy.
> > >
> > >Along with that - there is a spanish company, "Bornay" I am curious
> > >about,
> > >and the chinese made "cyclone" that one of my competitors is goo-goo
> > >over.
> > >Happy belated solstice all...
> > >
> > >Geoff Greenfield
> > >NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer TM
> >
>
>
>
> Pine Ridge Products
> www.pineridgeproducts.com
> Certified Bergey windpower Dealer/Installer
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> Apply now for a No-Annual-Fee Discover® Platinum Card
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>
>



Pine Ridge Products
www.pineridgeproducts.com
Certified Bergey windpower Dealer/Installer

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