PV buydown policy request [RE-wrenches]
Dean T. Newberry
deant at dcn.org
Wed Apr 28 21:25:38 PDT 2004
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Hi Bob, and y'All
When we had the new solar tax credits in the 70's a bunch of sharks
came into the market with crappy equipment and unrealistic expectations.
I left the market and made an honest living putting in foundations
and framing houses.
This time I vowed to stay and control the center of the market with
great products and good service and a strong marketing program.
The only really dangerous systems in the marketplace were put in
before I began advertising and calling everyone potentially interested
in solar.
As I discover marginal equipment I switch my sales away from the
product.
I have a 50% market share in my area, and the other guys I know and
they put in quality systems too.
The difficult thing is to keep calling everyone who might want a
system, and let them know what the deal is.
I know a retailer who lies about the benefits, and sells a lot of
systems, I am ready to start advertising in his town just to get the
truth out there.
I am now representing a really great installer to get the quality of
my installs more consistent, and to reach a wider market.
I'd like to encourage all wrenches to do their best to reach out to
customers and let them know the truth about our products and services.
To facilitate that effort let me share a great design software package.
Available at http://www.energyi.mccabe.net/
Thanks for the encouragement Maynard.
cul deant
Bob Maynard, Energy Outfitters wrote:
>
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>Matt,
>
>WELL SAID! Over promising, underdelivering, slip shod installs, and quick buck artisits are potentially going to hurt our industry long term and upfront rebates encourage all of it!
>
>Regards,
>Bob Maynard
>Energy Outfitters
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Matt Tritt [mailto:solarone at charter.net]
>Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 11:49 AM
>To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
>Subject: RE: PV buydown policy request [RE-wrenches]
>
>
>
>
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>Hay Bob,
>
>I (as you can tell) agree. I also believe that there is another element
>to all this that seldom gets discussed in public, and that's the effect
>of exaggerated claims made by certain manufacturers, and a lot of
>el-Cheapo on-line hit-below-the-belt wholesale to the public
>"distributors". Many claims of systems that will "eliminate" power bills
>create unrealistic expectations on the part of many consumers, who make
>purchases solely on the assumption that they will experience "free"
>energy. Spare me.
>
>I know of one wind system installed locally that's a classic case.
>Claims were made by BXXXXX that, according to the owner, their "10" kW
>system would produce $4,000. to $6,000. off-set a year in our wind
>regime of 10 to 11 MPH yearly average. Those of you in the wind end of
>things will immediately know what a joke this is. The turbine in
>question doesn't even begin generating noticeable power until over 9
>MPH. Do the math! They received a $600.00 reduction on their $9,000.
>yearly electric bill as a result of the wind production from a system
>that cost the owner $60,000.0 Yikes! A 100 year payback hardly seems
>worth the effort. ;-)
>
>This is the sort of thing that cries for production-based incentives!
>The manufacturer, who happens to enjoy high name recognition and wields
>heavy influence in the arena of small windpower, claims in writing that
>an 11 MPH site is adequate to yield enough energy from their equipment
>to be financially viable. Un-said is what the windspeed distribution has
>to be. A 10.5 MPH site that blows 10.5 ALL the time with very few high
>winds is possible. Wow. This is like a 10 k PV system installed under
>shade cloth; it costs the same to put in but will never produce enough
>to pay for itself in a normal life cycle.
>
>I was asked to install one of these same turbines at a site that just
>plain sucked. It maybe had an 8 average, so I suggested that they return
>it to the manufacturer (the same one involved the case above, by the
>way) for a refund, or that we could try and locate a buyer for it. I
>suggested that a 10 k PV system would produce plenty of energy to take
>care of their needs and proposed such a system. The manufacturer had
>sold them the turbine and tower after having "looked at a windmap" of
>the area. They wouldn't take it back! This whole thing turned into a big
>mess with the neighbors, the county and lawyers - not because of not
>enough wind, but because of the intransigence of the manu. And the ego
>of the buyer! The buyer hired some newbie solar outfit to install the
>machine after they told him that he had "plenty" of wind at his site
>from one site visit on a 15 MPH day. More reasons for production
>incentives!
>
>There should be some mechanism that provides interest-free financing,
>providing that the system produces within a given set of parameters; if
>not, then the owner should be charged the going interest rate or be
>given the opportunity to rectify the problem through recourse from their
>installer, the retailer and, eventually, the manufacturer. This would
>encourage responsible design and installation throughout the industry
>and provide more energy to the grid per dollar of investment. Or maybe
>not! :-)
>
>Matt T
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Bob Maynard, Energy Outfitters [mailto:bob at energyoutfitters.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 10:26 AM
>To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
>Subject: RE: PV buydown policy request [RE-wrenches]
>
>
>
>
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>Hi Matt,
>
>I believe the only way production credits will work well is with a solid
>no or low interest loan program. With those 2 elements, the industry
>overall would slow down some and I believe become more stable and
>sustainable. Currently we ride a boom/bust cycle with up front rebates
>as funding becomes available or runs out.
>
>Ideally the production credit should be enough to pay 50-70% of the
>annual loan payment with the customer picking up the balance. I believe
>this would be quite palatable to many potential customers.
>
>Regards,
>Bob Maynard
>Energy Outfitters
>
>
>Matt wrote:
>I'm going to be the devil's advocate in this issue.
>
>Even though it's obvious that performance-based incentives are the only
>really fair way of rewarding good system design and performance, how do
>you attract a purchaser when their rewards are spread over a (very) long
>period of time? With front-loaded incentives the initial costs are at
>least toned down to a more palatable level for those who must borrow $
>to buy the system.
>
>The only way it could work to the purchaser's advantage is if they had
>interest-free or extremely cheap loans. As it is, a 10 year break even
>point is pretty common, and I doubt that a country with private power
>suppliers will be inclined to force the utilities to pay at a higher
>level than their avoided cost to non-firm power suppliers just to help
>private micro generators compete with them.
>
>What about a hybrid system of up-front incentives with added
>performance-based premiums of actual money at the usual retail price for
>production that exceeds the consumer's consumption? Wouldn't that
>promote bigger systems and greater energy efficiency all the way around?
>
>Just my $00.02 worth
>
>Matt T
>Allan,
>
>I agree with Bob Maynard.
>
>Performance based PV incentives will prove more beneficial, in the
>long-term, than capacity based incentives. PV incentives paid in
>proportion to the energy produced will ensure that designers and
>installers are more attentive to performance and will also mitigate
>political concerns regarding funding of poorly designed and/or poorly
>functioning systems. Capacity based incentives served the purpose of
>incentivizing PV in California as an emerging technology with undefined
>performance and reliability. Seems to me we have passed this emergent
>stage and PV is now a reliable and relatively mature technology. The
>problem remains that PV power is still more expensive than central
>station burning of carbon based fuels, and as such, incentives are still
>needed to attract investors and customers. Performance based incentives
>will place the burden of risk with the end consumer, honest
>knowledgeable installers will be required and utility-grade performance
>meters will be necessary for accurate accounting and fraud prevention.
>Consumers will need uncomplicated forthright facts regarding siting
>issues, shading and overall system and component inefficiencies.
>
>I also believe incentives need to be structured to provide benefits for
>traditional utilities as well. Perhaps REC's can be aggregated to
>contribute towards State RPS requirements in an effort to keep utilities
>un-hostile towards greater use of DG within their grids.
>
>Graham Owen
>GO Solar
>
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