Solar Space Heating Storage Tank Size [RE-wrenches]

Sun Mar 7 20:14:42 PST 2004

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Hi y'All

Trident Energy Systems has several hundres apartments and several dozens 
of houses working for 20+ years with this kind of system. Search on 
Trident Solar for more information.

Deant

Darryl Thayer wrote:

>HI dan 
>When I copied and published the idea in 1993, I copied
>a paper by someone else, who I think copied another. 
>University of Wisconsin at Madison has also published
>on the topic.  
>
>Daryl
>
>--- Dana Orzel <dana at solarwork.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>Hey there Travis,
>>
>>How about pouring a 4" to 6" Insulated slab with
>>WIRSBO or eq. radiant heat
>>tube in the slab, viwalah - NO TANK REQUIRED. You
>>are already pouring a slab
>>why not put it to work for you twice. Contact me off
>>list or call to
>>discuss. This concept I call SDI - Solar Direct
>>Injection PV pumped solar
>>heated water from a shw collector direct into the
>>slab with a backup heat
>>source paralleled into the slab. I wish I could take
>>credit for the concept
>>and origination but Bristol Stickney in NM is the
>>man to whom I credit with
>>this.
>>
>>Responsible Technologies for Responsible People.
>>Great Solar Works, Inc.
>>dana at solarwork.com - 970.626.5253
>>Ridgway, CO, USA
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: "Travis Creswell, Ozark Solar"
>><ozsolar at ipa.net>
>>To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
>>Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 9:41 AM
>>Subject: Solar Space Heating Storage Tank Size
>>[RE-wrenches]
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Hello All,
>>>
>>>I am designing a storage tank (atmospheric) for
>>>      
>>>
>>the radiant in floor
>>heating
>>    
>>
>>>system for my new shop.  The office portion the
>>>      
>>>
>>shop will be constructed
>>of
>>    
>>
>>>Insulated Concrete Forms (IFC's) with a concrete
>>>      
>>>
>>roof.  This will allow it
>>    
>>
>>>to be also be used as storm shelter.  Three
>>>      
>>>
>>tornados missed us by less
>>than
>>    
>>
>>>5 miles last spring.
>>>
>>>These same forms will make a great tank as they
>>>      
>>>
>>are plenty strong and well
>>    
>>
>>>insulated.  One wall of the storage tank can be
>>>      
>>>
>>shared with the office
>>    
>>
>>>reducing the number of forms needed for the tank
>>>      
>>>
>>and the concrete pump
>>trunk
>>    
>>
>>>will already be on site for the office walls. 
>>>      
>>>
>>I've had an engineer look
>>it
>>    
>>
>>>over and he has given it his blessing to build a
>>>      
>>>
>>tank up to 8' tall!
>>    
>>
>>>Of course I will have to line the tank, which is
>>>      
>>>
>>easy enough with EPDM.  A
>>    
>>
>>>reasonably tight insulated lid will need to be
>>>      
>>>
>>constructed as well.
>>    
>>
>>>I'll have 400 ft2 of liquid flat plates and a very
>>>      
>>>
>>efficient wood
>>    
>>
>>>gasification boiler rated at 140,000 Btu's output.
>>>      
>>>
>> Does 600 Btu's/ft2/per
>>    
>>
>>>day sound right for the solar thermal array?  I'm
>>>      
>>>
>>thinking that is safe as
>>    
>>
>>>here in Southwest Missouri our average winter
>>>      
>>>
>>daytime temps are reasonably
>>    
>>
>>>mild.
>>>
>>>My main questions are the size and shape of the
>>>      
>>>
>>tank.  I can build the
>>tank
>>    
>>
>>>in any size or shape (tall and skinny vs. short
>>>      
>>>
>>and wide for example).  In
>>    
>>
>>>looking over some of my dated solar books, 2
>>>      
>>>
>>gallons per sq ft seems to be
>>    
>>
>>>the maximum ratio of thermal collector to storage.
>>>      
>>>
>> I assume that "rule of
>>    
>>
>>>thumb" was long before the widespread use of
>>>      
>>>
>>radiant in-floor heating.
>>    
>>
>>>Since radiant in-floor requires lower temps than
>>>      
>>>
>>baseboards or forced air
>>is
>>    
>>
>>>it acceptable (or required) to use a larger
>>>      
>>>
>>storage tank?
>>    
>>
>>>I've built a very detailed spreadsheet that allows
>>>      
>>>
>>me to see how long it
>>    
>>
>>>will take to "recharge" various sizes of tanks
>>>      
>>>
>>with the solar thermal
>>array
>>    
>>
>>>and the wood boiler.  The most efficient operation
>>>      
>>>
>>of the boiler is to be
>>    
>>
>>>fill it with wood then run wide open until the
>>>      
>>>
>>wood is gone.  If the tank
>>is
>>    
>>
>>>not large enough then the boiler will shut down
>>>      
>>>
>>and smolder thus lowering
>>    
>>
>>>the efficiency of the burn cycle.  The spreadsheet
>>>      
>>>
>>shows me that one
>>firing
>>    
>>
>>>of the boiler will easily charge up to a 1500
>>>      
>>>
>>gallon tank.  But this size
>>of
>>    
>>
>>>tank amounts to nearly 4 ft2 of thermal per gallon
>>>      
>>>
>>of storage.  One idea
>>is
>>    
>>
>>>to build a tall skinny tank.  I could place the
>>>      
>>>
>>solar heat exchanger
>>higher
>>    
>>
>>>in the tank so it has less water to heat.  This is
>>>      
>>>
>>assuming that
>>    
>>
>>>stratification will keep all that heated water up
>>>      
>>>
>>near the top.  Can
>>anyone
>>    
>>
>>>confirm if this is a reasonable expectation?  The
>>>      
>>>
>>space heating tanks that
>>    
>>
>>>I've seen are very short but that might have been
>>>      
>>>
>>for structural reasons.
>>    
>>
>>>Does anyone have a source for the finned copper
>>>      
>>>
>>coils that were commonly
>>    
>>
>>>used in these systems?  I'd rather use them than
>>>      
>>>
>>make my own coils.
>>    
>>
>>>Any thought and suggestions are appreciated.  I'd
>>>      
>>>
>>be glad to share the
>>    
>>
>>>spreadsheet and the system diagram should anyone
>>>      
>>>
>>want it.
>>    
>>
>>>Thanks in advance!
>>>
>>>Travis Creswell
>>>Ozark Energy Services, Inc.
>>>
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>
>
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-- 

* Cooperative Community Energy* 	*Dean T. Newberry*

430 D Street, Davis CA, 95616
Tel: 530 758-6064
Fax: 530 758-3684
Email: deant at dcn.org
Web:  CCEnergy.com       
      Talbott Solar <http://www.dcn.davis.ca.us/go/deant/>

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